gender-selection input

27 May 2005 - 4:23pm
9 years ago
10 replies
733 reads
Troy Brophy
2005

An argument has arisen in my company over the implementation of a
registration Web page.

We are going from a drop-down selection list to radio switches for the
Male/Female gender selection.

The argument is based on Jakob Nielsen's insistence that all radio switch
groups have a default setting.

Some say that for the case of gender, there should be no default.

Others say that because there is no default gender, a drop-down selection
list is the only way to go, as the list can start with a neutral selection
(e.g. "Choose.").

I'm wondering how others have dealt with this issue in the past.

Comments

28 May 2005 - 9:44am
Juan Lanus
2005

Hi Troy,
Setting no default might be a solution. Notice that once the user
selected one option there is no clean way to return to the
none-selected original status.
I've seen somewhere sort of a "not informed" option. This is for the
ones that do not want you to have that information, and this can be
the default.
--
Juan Lanus
TECNOSOL
Argentina

31 May 2005 - 11:10am
David Texidor
2004

Troy Brophy wrote:
> The argument is based on Jakob Nielsen's insistence that all radio
switch > groups have a default setting.

> Some say that for the case of gender, there should be no default.

I would agree that you shouldn't have a default selected for gender, but
you don't need to specify a default in the html code:

<form>
<input type="radio" name="1" value="M" />male<br />
<input type="radio" name="1" value="F" />female<br />
</form>

(You would probably want to ensure via js and system validation that an
option was selected.)

Hope this helps...
-dt
______________________________________
Dave Texidor | Web Experience Designer
Insight | http://www.insight.com

31 May 2005 - 12:04pm
Marc Rettig
2004

<grin>
I've always wanted the chance to implement gender selection not as some sort
of toggle control, but as a SLIDER.

-----Original Message-----
From:
discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.
com] On Behalf Of David Texidor
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 1:11 PM
To: Troy Brophy;
discuss-interactiondesigners.com at lists.interactiondesigners.com
Subject: RE: [ID Discuss] gender-selection input

[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]

Troy Brophy wrote:
> The argument is based on Jakob Nielsen's insistence that all radio
switch > groups have a default setting.

> Some say that for the case of gender, there should be no default.

I would agree that you shouldn't have a default selected for gender, but
you don't need to specify a default in the html code:

<form>
<input type="radio" name="1" value="M" />male<br />
<input type="radio" name="1" value="F" />female<br />
</form>

(You would probably want to ensure via js and system validation that an
option was selected.)

Hope this helps...
-dt
______________________________________
Dave Texidor | Web Experience Designer
Insight | http://www.insight.com

31 May 2005 - 1:00pm
Katie Albers
2005

Marc's comment actually brings up a serious point: As the meanings of
"Gender" and "Sex" diverge, "Gender" is generally understood to be a
self-identification which would perfectly reasonably be selected via
a slider, whereas "Sex" is an externally determined trait (which also
has complicating factors, but is approximately binary). It is _not_
the case that "Gender" is merely the "politically correct" term for
"Sex". It's important to make sure that you're asking for the correct
information when designing a form. With the possible exception of
dating sites and a few others, I suspect that there are very few
cases in which the real question is about "gender".

kt

At 2:04 PM -0400 5/31/05, Marc Rettig wrote:
>[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
><grin>
>I've always wanted the chance to implement gender selection not as some sort
>of toggle control, but as a SLIDER.
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
>discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
>[mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.
>com] On Behalf Of David Texidor
>Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 1:11 PM
>To: Troy Brophy;
>discuss-interactiondesigners.com at lists.interactiondesigners.com
>Subject: RE: [ID Discuss] gender-selection input
>
>[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
>
>Troy Brophy wrote:
>> The argument is based on Jakob Nielsen's insistence that all radio
>switch > groups have a default setting.
>
>> Some say that for the case of gender, there should be no default.
>
>I would agree that you shouldn't have a default selected for gender, but
>you don't need to specify a default in the html code:
>
><form>
> <input type="radio" name="1" value="M" />male<br />
> <input type="radio" name="1" value="F" />female<br />
></form>
>
>(You would probably want to ensure via js and system validation that an
>option was selected.)
>
>
>Hope this helps...
>-dt
>______________________________________
>Dave Texidor | Web Experience Designer
>Insight | http://www.insight.com
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Welcome to the Interaction Design Group!
>To post to this list ....... discuss at ixdg.org
>(Un)Subscription Options ... http://discuss.ixdg.org/
>Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
>Questions .................. lists at ixdg.org
>Home ....................... http://ixdg.org/

--
Katie Albers
User Experience Consultant
310 581 3024

1 Jun 2005 - 6:53pm
JS Bracher
2004

Hm...

What an excellent idea. This would definitely offend some of my
conservative friends.

I'll have to keep this in mind. <evil grin>

Marc Rettig wrote:
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> <grin>
> I've always wanted the chance to implement gender selection not as some sort
> of toggle control, but as a SLIDER.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> ....

1 Jun 2005 - 11:46pm
Anonymous

About Gender & Sex: Which one is politically correct. In a conference that I
attended a couple of months ago, the procedings were virually disrupted due
to the use of the word gender. One European female designer/teacher argued
that the word Gender is not proper as it implicitly implies female. After a
lot of confusion it was decided that the appropriate word would be "Sex".
How ever, I believe, that this is a cultural issue and/or ideological issue.
Since this is a multi-culture, "global" list, I wanted to know the lists
openion on this issue. Or is this too trival a matter?
On 6/1/05, Katie Albers <katie at firstthought.com> wrote:
>
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
>
> Marc's comment actually brings up a serious point: As the meanings of
> "Gender" and "Sex" diverge, "Gender" is generally understood to be a
> self-identification which would perfectly reasonably be selected via
> a slider, whereas "Sex" is an externally determined trait (which also
> has complicating factors, but is approximately binary). It is _not_
> the case that "Gender" is merely the "politically correct" term for
> "Sex". It's important to make sure that you're asking for the correct
> information when designing a form. With the possible exception of
> dating sites and a few others, I suspect that there are very few
> cases in which the real question is about "gender".
>
> kt
>
> At 2:04 PM -0400 5/31/05, Marc Rettig wrote:
> >[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
> >
> ><grin>
> >I've always wanted the chance to implement gender selection not as some
> sort
> >of toggle control, but as a SLIDER.
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From:
> >discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> >[mailto:
> discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.
> >com] On Behalf Of David Texidor
> >Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 1:11 PM
> >To: Troy Brophy;
> >discuss-interactiondesigners.com at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> >Subject: RE: [ID Discuss] gender-selection input
> >
> >[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
> >
> >
> >Troy Brophy wrote:
> >> The argument is based on Jakob Nielsen's insistence that all radio
> >switch > groups have a default setting.
> >
> >> Some say that for the case of gender, there should be no default.
> >
> >I would agree that you shouldn't have a default selected for gender, but
> >you don't need to specify a default in the html code:
> >
> ><form>
> > <input type="radio" name="1" value="M" />male<br />
> > <input type="radio" name="1" value="F" />female<br />
> ></form>
> >
> >(You would probably want to ensure via js and system validation that an
> >option was selected.)
> >
> >
> >Hope this helps...
> >-dt
> >______________________________________
> >Dave Texidor | Web Experience Designer
> >Insight | http://www.insight.com
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Welcome to the Interaction Design Group!
> >To post to this list ....... discuss at ixdg.org
> >(Un)Subscription Options ... http://discuss.ixdg.org/
> >Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
> >Questions .................. lists at ixdg.org
> >Home ....................... http://ixdg.org/
>
>
> --
> Katie Albers
> User Experience Consultant
> 310 581 3024
> _______________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Group!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixdg.org
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://discuss.ixdg.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixdg.org
> Home ....................... http://ixdg.org/
>

Regards,

Vikram Singh
[De-centralizing the central issues]@newMedia
National Institute of Design,
Paldi, Ahmedabad - 7

1 Jun 2005 - 9:23pm
PetraLynn
2005

I've been waiting for some time to reply to messages on this list and
finally found one I'm qualified to respond to. I'll vote for the
SLIDER when my doctor puts one on the application form. Of course I
would settle for a third bullet N.E.C. :>P

Petra

JS Bracher wrote:

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
>
> Hm...
>
> What an excellent idea. This would definitely offend some of my
> conservative friends.
>
> I'll have to keep this in mind. <evil grin>
>
>
>
> Marc Rettig wrote:
>
>> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
>> material.]
>>
>> <grin>
>> I've always wanted the chance to implement gender selection not as
>> some sort
>> of toggle control, but as a SLIDER.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> ....
>
> _______________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Group!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixdg.org
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://discuss.ixdg.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixdg.org
> Home ....................... http://ixdg.org/
>

2 Jun 2005 - 5:48am
PetraLynn
2005

There is a very distinct difference: Sex is biologic, Gender is
cultural. However, for many determining sex at birth is problematic and
gender IS a sliding scale. Therefore, when the question is asked, "what
sex are you?", what information is one trying to determine? Do you want
to know what my genitalia are? or do you want to know how my brain is
wired and trained?

In any event, no longer can these two issues be considered binary--at
least to some of us.

Petra

Vikram's Mail wrote:

>[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
>About Gender & Sex: Which one is politically correct. In a conference that I
>attended a couple of months ago, the procedings were virually disrupted due
>to the use of the word gender. One European female designer/teacher argued
>that the word Gender is not proper as it implicitly implies female. After a
>lot of confusion it was decided that the appropriate word would be "Sex".
>How ever, I believe, that this is a cultural issue and/or ideological issue.
>Since this is a multi-culture, "global" list, I wanted to know the lists
>openion on this issue. Or is this too trival a matter?
> On 6/1/05, Katie Albers <katie at firstthought.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>Welcome to the Interaction Design Group!
>To post to this list ....... discuss at ixdg.org
>(Un)Subscription Options ... http://discuss.ixdg.org/
>Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
>Questions .................. lists at ixdg.org
>Home ....................... http://ixdg.org/
>
>
>

2 Jun 2005 - 8:49am
Thomas Vander Wal
2004

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has 7 choices to
compensate for the slider approach.

All the best,
Thomas

On 5/31/05, Marc Rettig <mrettig at well.com> wrote:
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> <grin>
> I've always wanted the chance to implement gender selection not as some sort
> of toggle control, but as a SLIDER.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> [mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.
> com] On Behalf Of David Texidor
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 1:11 PM
> To: Troy Brophy;
> discuss-interactiondesigners.com at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> Subject: RE: [ID Discuss] gender-selection input
>
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
>
> Troy Brophy wrote:
> > The argument is based on Jakob Nielsen's insistence that all radio
> switch > groups have a default setting.
>
> > Some say that for the case of gender, there should be no default.
>
> I would agree that you shouldn't have a default selected for gender, but
> you don't need to specify a default in the html code:
>
> <form>
> <input type="radio" name="1" value="M" />male<br />
> <input type="radio" name="1" value="F" />female<br />
> </form>
>
> (You would probably want to ensure via js and system validation that an
> option was selected.)
>
>
> Hope this helps...
> -dt
> ______________________________________
> Dave Texidor | Web Experience Designer
> Insight | http://www.insight.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Group!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixdg.org
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://discuss.ixdg.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixdg.org
> Home ....................... http://ixdg.org/
>

2 Jun 2005 - 9:14am
Simon King
2004

On 6/02/05, Thomas Vander Wal <vanderwal at gmail.com> wrote:
>The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has 7 choices to
>compensate for the slider approach.

I'd be interested in knowing what those choices are. Can you point us toward
a resource that lists them? Thanks.

Simon

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