Switching apps/GUIs ( was RE: Adobe takes over Macromedia)

19 Apr 2005 - 7:27am
8 years ago
4 replies
627 reads
Dave Malouf
2005

Switching is an interesting discussion.

The question I would ask anyone making a switch is, "did they always have
the choice of returning?"

I have "forced" my team to all use fireworks instead of photoshop for screen
GUI design (low leve/high fidelity). The reasons are many and not really
worth going into in this thread.

One of my designers was quite the photoshop person and initially had a hard
time w/ the switch, but b/c she had "no choice" she learned fireworks quite
quickly.

How many of us have the opportunity to be "forced" into a switch w/o a
fallback? That is the big diff to me in behavior.

AND I totally agree with Jared that especially in these professional level
tools it is really hard to be a master of both. You will always have a
favorite if both (more than 1) are available and thus be better in it than
the other.

-- dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesi
> gners.com
> [mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interac
> tiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Donna Fritzsche
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 5:49 AM
> To: Jared M. Spool; andrei at designbyfire.com
> Cc: IxDG Discussion
> Subject: Re: [ID Discuss] Adobe takes over Macromedia
>
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant
> quoted material.]
>
> >
> >Having studied how designers learn and use their tools (and how
> >other folks, like programmers learn and use theirs), I can tell you
> >that there is a huge loyalty to learning tools. A programmer
> >investing in Emacs will find everything else to be much harder, not
> >because it actually is harder, but because of the investment they've
> >made and the mastery achieved.
> >
>
> I think there is some truth to your statement (and I love emacs!),
> but I learned Freehand after Illustrator. In this case, I think
> there is some legitimate difference in mental models, approach, etc.
> Which I think also explains why Todd didn' t take to it and I did
> (for instance,)
>
> Donna
> _______________________________________________
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Comments

19 Apr 2005 - 10:18am
Todd Warfel
2003

On Apr 19, 2005, at 8:27 AM, David Heller wrote:

> How many of us have the opportunity to be "forced" into a switch w/o a
> fallback? That is the big diff to me in behavior.

I liken this to those in the corporate world vs. small to mid-sized
agencies. When attending conferences like DUX and IA Summit, I've
noticed that most of the people in corporate culture tend to be on
Windows with Visio, while most of those who are in smaller shops (e.g.
independents to a couple hundred employees) are more likely to be on
Macs using something like Illustrator or OmniGraffle.

Of course there are exceptions - AOL from what I understand does their
UI work in Illustrator and I know a handful of independents who are
running Vision/Windows, but those seem to be the exception to the rule.

And this is where Jared's point comes in. To get an independent to
switch from Win/Visio to Mac Illustrator is an investment (not just
financial), but time. Now, they might have increased productivity after
the fact, but that initial investment due to the traction (what I
already know and am familiar with) is a cost and initial barrier.

Cheers!

Todd R. Warfel
Email/AIM: twarfel at mac.com
Blog: http://toddwarfel.com

19 Apr 2005 - 10:39am
Dan Zlotnikov
2004

Dave, your point sounds a whole lot like the problem people have with
learning foreign languages. Zompist has a good article on that. What
it comes down to is just what you said; if a person has a fallback
option, they have little reason to put much effort into learning
something new. Importing shortcuts and customizing the interface is
all well and good, but it still won't be quite the same.
http://www.zompist.com/whylang.html

Also, I'm curious: Jared, you said that in your experience people
mostly don't tailor the new GUI to better suit their needs. Have you
asked them why they haven't done so?

Dan

On 4/19/05, David Heller <dave at ixdg.org> wrote:
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> Switching is an interesting discussion.
>
> The question I would ask anyone making a switch is, "did they always have
> the choice of returning?"

--
WatCHI
http://www.acm.org/chapters/watchi

19 Apr 2005 - 12:39pm
Andrei Herasimchuk
2004

On Apr 19, 2005, at 5:27 AM, David Heller wrote:

> I have "forced" my team to all use fireworks instead of photoshop for
> screen
> GUI design (low leve/high fidelity). The reasons are many and not
> really
> worth going into in this thread.

I would love to hear this logic as a sided discussion. I find Firework
completely unacceptable for any screen design work, due to a host of
functionality and behavioral issues. What is it that you find so
appealing about Fireworks in this regard, so much so to force people to
use it for their work?

> How many of us have the opportunity to be "forced" into a switch w/o a
> fallback? That is the big diff to me in behavior.

I'm forced to all the time. Part of the job. But if you were to force
me to drop the tool I use for my livelihood, I'd say you were quite
mad. 8^)

Andrei

19 Apr 2005 - 1:14pm
John Vaughan - ...
2004

Geez, Andrei, wipe the spittle off for a sec and take a breather...
Got any opinions on cars or stereos? My eyes always glaze over when guys
get rabid about those topics, too.

BTW: Gotta admit, I use Fireworks. It's a tool. No more, no less. But my
Camaro friggin' kicks ass! Yee-hah

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrei Herasimchuk" <andrei at involutionstudios.com>
To: "IxD Mailinglist" <discuss at ixdg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: Switching apps/GUIs ( was RE: [ID Discuss] Adobe takes over
Macromedia)

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
>
> On Apr 19, 2005, at 6:44 AM, David Heller wrote:
>
>> 3. Fireworks is better at GUI design b/c that is what it was designed to
>> do.
>> Fireworks is not a photo-editing tool that people have figured out how to
>> make use of for other reasons. It is a GUI design tool. It's mix of both
>> vector and raster based tools makes it really an idea tool for what I see
>> as
>> the type of work we do. I don't even want to get into the more gadgety
>> side
>> of things like its library and style palettes.
>
> Oh wow. Fireworks is anything but a GUI design tool. I have no idea how
> you can make that claim. Fireworks is an cool advancement on the concept
> Canvas tried to accomplish so long ago and didn't get very far with.
>
> And FWIW, Photoshop started fundamentally as a pixel-editing tool that
> grew into what it does around photos and other creative tasks. (Remember
> one of its first strengths was to translate file formats.) Pure pixel
> pushing is what is required to do GUI screen editing in my book.
> Fireworks' object and layering model constantly get in the way of that, so
> like I said, I'm not sure how you can make this claim that Fireworks is a
> better GUI screen design tool.
>
> And hey, you opened your mouth in this regard, so either put your foot in
> it, or step up and make your case. 8^)
>
>> Of course I'm sure there are a ton of reasons to
>> counter everything I just said, and someone might think the world of
>> PhotoShop or think that you can do all that in Illustrator or whatever. I
>> think I make a good case for:
>
> It's "Photoshop" not "PhotoShop."
>
>> Oh! And I love Dreamweaver over GoLive too!
>
> Well, now we know you're sick in the head.
> .
> Andrei
>
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