The non-Americans

17 Jan 2005 - 3:17am
9 years ago
87 replies
1387 reads
Listera
2004

I get a lot of private email from this list and others whenever I ask a
question about or mention something happening beyond the borders of the U.S.
(and English speaking countries). It's usually in the form of helpful
clarification and encouragement, but also of exasperation regarding lack of
such coverage/attention/comprehension.

How many designers are on this list from 'other' countries?
Is there anything that can be done to raise their overt participation?
What are the rest of us missing that get never discussed here?
Speak up, people.

Ziya
Nullius in Verba

Comments

17 Jan 2005 - 4:51am
Christina Li
2004

Here is one Chinese designer in England. ;-)

------------------------------------
Mobile: +44 (0) 7879642662

Work: http://www.uigarden.net
Blog: http://uidream.blogspot.com
Personal: http://www.christinali.com
------------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesi
> gners.com
> [mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interac
> tiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Listera
> Sent: 17 January 2005 08:17
> To: IxD
> Subject: [ID Discuss] The non-Americans
>
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant
> quoted material.]
>
> I get a lot of private email from this list and others
> whenever I ask a question about or mention something
> happening beyond the borders of the U.S.
> (and English speaking countries). It's usually in the form of
> helpful clarification and encouragement, but also of
> exasperation regarding lack of such coverage/attention/comprehension.
>
> How many designers are on this list from 'other' countries?
> Is there anything that can be done to raise their overt participation?
> What are the rest of us missing that get never discussed here?
> Speak up, people.
>
> Ziya
> Nullius in Verba
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at ixdg.org
> --
> to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest):
> http://discuss.ixdg.org/
> --
> Questions: lists at ixdg.org
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> Announcement Online List (discussion list members get
> announcements already) http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
> --
> http://ixdg.org/
>
>
>

17 Jan 2005 - 5:25am
Matthew Goddard
2004

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Hi

I'm from the UK.

I often wonder that if there was a more participatory IxD community in the
UK I would be able to engage with the list differently, and post more
frequently.

In America the list seem to be much more about fostering and nurturing the
IxD community outside of the list (you meet up semi-regularly) and this
doesn't seem to be the case in the UK but maybe I'm missing something!

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Listera [mailto:listera at rcn.com]
Sent: 17 January 2005 08:17
To: IxD
Subject: [ID Discuss] The non-Americans

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*************
This email and any files attached are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient of this email please note our email statement at the foot
of this email.
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[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]

I get a lot of private email from this list and others whenever I ask a
question about or mention something happening beyond the borders of the U.S.
(and English speaking countries). It's usually in the form of helpful
clarification and encouragement, but also of exasperation regarding lack of
such coverage/attention/comprehension.

How many designers are on this list from 'other' countries?
Is there anything that can be done to raise their overt participation?
What are the rest of us missing that get never discussed here?
Speak up, people.

Ziya
Nullius in Verba

_______________________________________________
Interaction Design Discussion List
discuss at ixdg.org
--
to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest): http://discuss.ixdg.org/
--
Questions: lists at ixdg.org
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17 Jan 2005 - 5:55am
Tadej Maligoj
2004

Hi,

I am from Slovenia (very small country in Europe, often mixed up with Slovakia).

I enjoy reading this disccussion forum, gives me a lot of "third
party" opinions. That's fine, because we are here dealing with same
problems building software and websites.

However, sometimes it is hard to follow the language. You sure
remember the discuss about two pennies with a guy from UK. He
complained about it. You can imagine how hard it is to understand such
things for a non-native english speaker.
On the other hand, this is a good opportunity source for a learning
from the field.
Idealy, when one is using abbrievation, jargon or other non-wide used
word, he or she should explain it in brackets. This is also a good IxD
praxis, isn't it? ;+)

And while it is hard to understand, it is even harder to participate.
With a limited personal thesaurus it is hard to give very interesting
readings (It is known, that one is good in a foreign language when he
can tell a good joke in it. I unfortunately can't.)
It is even harder to participate in a rapid conversation as it
sometimes happen here.

So, I enjoy the forum, learn much from it, and manage to give little in return.

Thanks for asking ;+)

Tadej

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 03:17:28 -0500, Listera <listera at rcn.com> wrote:
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> I get a lot of private email from this list and others whenever I ask a
> question about or mention something happening beyond the borders of the U.S.
> (and English speaking countries). It's usually in the form of helpful
> clarification and encouragement, but also of exasperation regarding lack of
> such coverage/attention/comprehension.
>
> How many designers are on this list from 'other' countries?
> Is there anything that can be done to raise their overt participation?
> What are the rest of us missing that get never discussed here?
> Speak up, people.
>
> Ziya
> Nullius in Verba
>
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at ixdg.org
> --
> to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest): http://discuss.ixdg.org/
> --
> Questions: lists at ixdg.org
> --
> Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements already)
> http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
> --
> http://ixdg.org/
>

--
_______________________________
Tadej Maligoj, Information Architect
e1: tadej.maligoj at gmail.com
e2: studio at maligoj.com
m: 031 306 986
w: www.maligoj.com

17 Jan 2005 - 6:11am
Ben Hunt
2004

I'm in the UK.

My only real gripe with respect to US-centric comments is job postings
or notes about up-coming events that don't mention the city, state or
country.

My original post about "My 2c" was meant to be ironic. I was actually
moaning about people hiding half-points behind "just my two cents"..
(Thinks: Maybe I need to adjust my 'English' for those on the list for
whom Sarcasm isn't their first language?)

- Ben

17 Jan 2005 - 6:42am
Suresh JV
2004

Hi,

I'm from Bangalore, India.

Limited vocabulary is one factor for lesser participation.
The other things I miss are usually the gadgets. [Like iPOD]
The cost is a major factor to experience these things first hand.

However the discussions give a fair idea of what's going on.
I'm learning lots here.

Regards,
Suresh JV.

-----Original Message-----
From:
discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesign
ers.com]On Behalf Of Listera
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 1:47 PM
To: IxD
Subject: [ID Discuss] The non-Americans

[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]

I get a lot of private email from this list and others whenever I ask a
question about or mention something happening beyond the borders of the U.S.
(and English speaking countries). It's usually in the form of helpful
clarification and encouragement, but also of exasperation regarding lack of
such coverage/attention/comprehension.

How many designers are on this list from 'other' countries?
Is there anything that can be done to raise their overt participation?
What are the rest of us missing that get never discussed here?
Speak up, people.

Ziya
Nullius in Verba

_______________________________________________
Interaction Design Discussion List
discuss at ixdg.org
--
to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest): http://discuss.ixdg.org/
--
Questions: lists at ixdg.org
--
Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements already)
http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
--
http://ixdg.org/

17 Jan 2005 - 6:29am
zayera at bluewin.ch
2004

Hello,

Surely there are some "european" & non-american people on this list, like
myself. Unfortunately I (others too I assume) don't have the time to be
as talkative & discuss all issues going on the list.
Alot of discussion are based upon a community and I agree with Matt, that
somehow for example in europe, there are fewer ID communities and regular
meetings etc than in US.

However something I miss is an searchable-archive of discussion (with threads),
where I could catch up or find relevant topics after themes.
Perhaps there is one, but I don't know about it :-(

Ciao,
Zayera

17 Jan 2005 - 6:27am
Henry
2004

Hi,

I am from Bangalore, India.
It is a great forum, for sharing opinions and ideas on interaction design.

I appreciate every participant for their contribution.

Henry
www.henryjacob.com
Bangalore
INDIA

*** Some of the world's greatest feats were accomplished by people not smart
enough to know they were impossible. ***

17 Jan 2005 - 6:46am
Manu Sharma
2003

> However something I miss is an searchable-archive of discussion (with
threads),
> where I could catch up or find relevant topics after themes.
> Perhaps there is one, but I don't know about it :-(

Indeed, there is. It's not very easy to find which, of course, isn't
your fault!

<url:
http://listserver.dreamhost.com/pipermail/discuss-interactiondesigners.com/>

Btw, I'm based at New Delhi, India. But aside from some very focussed
user research, I don't think too much of geographical boundaries.

Manu.
http://orangehues.com/blog

17 Jan 2005 - 6:47am
Tadej Maligoj
2004

Ben,

it was about cents, not pennies. I did mistake, sorry.

I did have lectures in UK English. My teacher was very strict about
distinction between UK and US English. Typical "Royal English" lover.
Thus I do understand your point (even if I didn't get your joke in
every nianse).

Even more: if you must fight for your language, imagine the nation of
two million, communicate in their own language and fight for proper
use of it (this is the case in Slovenia).
Particulary hard it is in informatics, where most (young) language
users learn from internet. Our current language politics is to make it
all slovenian (for i.e. user interface). All interface is translated.
This completely new words sounds quite strange at beginning.
I admit that I use english versions myself (i.e. MS OS and Office),
because I can't orient myself. (While support my wife, we do count
lines in menu ... ;+)

Some thinks all this is stupid. That we should just adopt english
words (and write it in slovenian phonetics). I heard a prominent
language scinetist said that English is so widely used and popular
because it has no problem getting new words from others. That only one
quarter is from its basic vocabular (from mid-ages).

Hm.

Tadej

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:11:16 -0000, Ben Hunt <ben at scratchmedia.co.uk> wrote:
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> I'm in the UK.
>
> My only real gripe with respect to US-centric comments is job postings
> or notes about up-coming events that don't mention the city, state or
> country.
>
> My original post about "My 2c" was meant to be ironic. I was actually
> moaning about people hiding half-points behind "just my two cents"..
> (Thinks: Maybe I need to adjust my 'English' for those on the list for
> whom Sarcasm isn't their first language?)
>
> - Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at ixdg.org
> --
> to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest): http://discuss.ixdg.org/
> --
> Questions: lists at ixdg.org
> --
> Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements already)
> http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
> --
> http://ixdg.org/
>

--
_______________________________
Tadej Maligoj, Information Architect
e1: tadej.maligoj at gmail.com
e2: studio at maligoj.com
m: 031 306 986
w: www.maligoj.com

17 Jan 2005 - 6:49am
Per Sökjer
2004

Swedish designer in...Sweden!

I agree with Ben, but for the moment I'm looking for a new job
somewhere in the world (pref: Canada) so job postings are
always welcome. :-)

I think the invitation to join this list got out to most of my former
and present colleagues and many signed up. But maybe they
hesitate to participate in discussions and mainly use the list as
some kind of input for reflection?
:Per

2005-01-17 kl. 12.11 skrev Ben Hunt:

> My only real gripe with respect to US-centric comments is job postings
> or notes about up-coming events that don't mention the city, state or
> country.

17 Jan 2005 - 6:55am
Stewart Dean
2004

I'm UK based but work on international sites on a regular basis (Europe and
beyond).

As far as issues that are being missed - not quite sure what you mean by
this.

I can vouch for what different countries sometimes expect in terms of design
but it tends not to be as different as some folks think.

A story that amazes some is I was working for a US consulting company and
was asked by one of the technical people there if we used Windows in the UK.
I know this is a minority but sometimes the more you travel, the more things
look the same.

Stew Dean

>From: Listera <listera at rcn.com>
>To: IxD <discuss-interactiondesigners.com at lists.interactiondesigners.com>
>Subject: [ID Discuss] The non-Americans
>Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 03:17:28 -0500
>
>[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
>I get a lot of private email from this list and others whenever I ask a
>question about or mention something happening beyond the borders of the
>U.S.
>(and English speaking countries). It's usually in the form of helpful
>clarification and encouragement, but also of exasperation regarding lack of
>such coverage/attention/comprehension.
>
>How many designers are on this list from 'other' countries?
>Is there anything that can be done to raise their overt participation?
>What are the rest of us missing that get never discussed here?
>Speak up, people.
>
>Ziya
>Nullius in Verba
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Interaction Design Discussion List
>discuss at ixdg.org
>--
>to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest):
>http://discuss.ixdg.org/
>--
>Questions: lists at ixdg.org
>--
>Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements
>already)
>http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
>--
>http://ixdg.org/

17 Jan 2005 - 7:12am
Dave Malouf
2005

A few thoughts from the administrator ... Totally interested in this thread
and would love on list feedback (and of course off-list).

Language: Besides the subtleties that exist between the different "dialects"
of English, I'm not sure how to get around this one. At different points
there have been people who have attempted to post in different languages
(not in ages), but these were short lived.

I also look at what happened to Orkut and how the whole application sorta
died because of mixing languages in a discussion forum, instead of having
separate forums for different languages. I'm not sure what the answer is
here and I don't want to sit on my laurels and just say, "Well, English is
the language on this list."

I would be interested to hear about what people think of other lists? Is
this not an issue let's say on AIfIA? AIfIA members are encouraged to be
international, yet the list is completely English.

Face-to-face meetings:
If you live someplace, any place where you think you can get a critical mass
of people who are interested in speaking about IxD over a beer (or pick your
approprate beverage), then Hallelujah go for it. Send me an e-mail and we
can think together about how to set this up. Non-US cities that have at
least outreached to me with interest include: Toronto, Vienna, and London.
Some cities have general UX events already and don't believe that a specific
IxD event helps much, but in cities where there isn't any UX meetings,
please do feel free to use IxD as a gathering point if you feel you have the
critical mass.

Announcements (name the city).
Jobs and event announcements have to say the city. If they don't I
immiediately send the poster a request to do just that. I even say it has to
be in the subject line. So I'm not sure about the validity of the comment
about postings.

Now the content ... That's a different story. If people want to post
announcements, please feel free to do so. Especially job announcements are
easy. Event announcements are usually kept to those with IxD participation
in some way. To be quite honest there just aren't that many. Yes, since I'm
heavily involved in both NYC IxD and Uxnet, there are more of these types of
announcements, but if IxD is represented within your local ambassordors
network of Uxnet (something I encourage) and there are events for Uxnet,
then go for it. I encourage it.

The one thing that is interesting, is that no one mentioned that the content
of the discussions around IxD are US-centric. Someone talked about how we
assume the world owns an iPod, but other than that, discussions around
internationalization are not often brought up--i.e. what the issues in
designing a multi-lingual digital solution: iconography over text, dynamic
text labelings, etc.

Anyway, I believe that so far this thread has spoken about problem issues,
and not too much about solutions. I have a list of people, mostly people who
have requested to be translators (I know, this has been way too slow in
happening, and I apologize) on a discussion list thinking about ixdg and
i18n (internationalization). From the moment I joined the steering committee
and envisioned IxDG, I knew I wanted it to be international. How could it
not be? I saw the arguably successful efforts of AIfIA and believed that we
could do similar things here. If you are indeed interested in discussing
these issues, let me know and we can start up that e-mail list again for
real hardy discussion regarding i18n.

I look forward to people's thoughts regarding i18n and IxDG here on this
thread for a while too.

Oh! Re: the archives ... As Manu pointed out they are threaded and
searchable. Everything you ever wanted to know about this list is at
http://discuss.ixdg.org including a link to the archives, guidelines about
use of the list and a help file to help you manage your own subscription.

-- dave

David Heller
dave (at) ixdg (dot) org
http://ixdg.org
http://htmhell.com/

AIM: bolinhanyc // Y!: dave_ux // MSN: hippiefunk at hotmail.com

17 Jan 2005 - 7:13am
Marcin Wichary
2004

A Polish guy currently residing in the Netherlands. My lurking is
mainly caused by the fact that I'm still learning :), which this list
is great for, by the way.

> What are the rest of us missing that get never discussed here?

I've always been interested in the problems/issues with software (or
product) internationalization. I've been there when Polish
(micro)computer science terminology was taking shape, I've witnessed
more or less successful attempts at the polonization of first PC
programs 20 years ago, and this was a fascinating time (Polish, as you
might suspect, is quite a different language than English).

However, this is by no means complaining. I'm happy with this list as
it is. :)

Marcin Wichary
e:\> mwichary at usability.pl
w:\> www.aci.com.pl/mwichary >> Attached
w:\> www.aci.com.pl/mwichary/gui >> Graphical User Interface gallery
w:\> www.10yearsofbeingboring.com >> 10 years of Being Boring
w:\> www.usability.pl >> Usability.pl

17 Jan 2005 - 7:25am
Anjali Arora, NYU
2004

Hi, I am an Indian grad student here at New York University. I think this
list is great for IxD professionals, though I must admit I am rarely able to
keep up with the volumes!!

I guess in my case participation on the list is constrained by lack of time
( guess what, I missed the IDEO presentation at Parsons too; Dave, can one
see it online someplace??), & my absorption with my current area of study. I
am designing a web-based app for architects & designers to store & share
their professional images, & this is where I am devoting the bulk of my
energies .

I too had this pet theory that I nurtured for a while about how most digital
products are designed with an American bias,to the detriment of other people
but I'm not too sure of that anymore. Like Stew says, things are not all
that different across the world; guess it us up to us designers to
understand & incorporate the crust of unique cultural differences atop our
designs. A confession: I could never understand what the popcorn button on
microwaves here did, till recently; and now that I am wiser, I find it's
brilliant, I get great popcorn every time!!)

-Anjali
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Anjali Arora,
Interactive Telecommunications Program,
Tisch School of the Arts, New York University
aa917 at nyu.edu
http://www.artbrush.net/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart Dean" <stew8dean at hotmail.com>
To: <discuss-interactiondesigners.com at lists.interactiondesigners.com>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 6:55 AM
Subject: RE: [ID Discuss] The non-Americans

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
material.]
>
> I'm UK based but work on international sites on a regular basis (Europe
and
> beyond).
>
> As far as issues that are being missed - not quite sure what you mean by
> this.
>
> I can vouch for what different countries sometimes expect in terms of
design
> but it tends not to be as different as some folks think.
>
?
> >What are the rest of us missing that get never discussed here?
> >Speak up, people.
> >
> >Ziya
> >Nullius in Verba
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Interaction Design Discussion List
> >discuss at ixdg.org
> >--
> >to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest):
> >http://discuss.ixdg.org/
> >--
> >Questions: lists at ixdg.org
> >--
> >Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements
> >already)
> >http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
> >--
> >http://ixdg.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at ixdg.org
> --
> to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest):
http://discuss.ixdg.org/
> --
> Questions: lists at ixdg.org
> --
> Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements
already)
> http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
> --
> http://ixdg.org/

17 Jan 2005 - 7:31am
Tadej Maligoj
2004

Internationalis/zation is way to complicated to be effective. Even the
word itself is too long so it not even used any more (i18n)!

I personaly prefer universal language (=English). It allows me to
communicate with people from non-english speaking world. They gives me
more useful information (they know we do use Windows here, too, and
how much problem do we have with localisation) as US citizens alone.

Tadej

Work global, think local. ;+)

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 07:12:35 -0500, David Heller <dave at ixdg.org> wrote:
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> A few thoughts from the administrator ... Totally interested in this thread
> and would love on list feedback (and of course off-list).
>
> Language: Besides the subtleties that exist between the different "dialects"
> of English, I'm not sure how to get around this one. At different points
> there have been people who have attempted to post in different languages
> (not in ages), but these were short lived.
>
> I also look at what happened to Orkut and how the whole application sorta
> died because of mixing languages in a discussion forum, instead of having
> separate forums for different languages. I'm not sure what the answer is
> here and I don't want to sit on my laurels and just say, "Well, English is
> the language on this list."
>
> I would be interested to hear about what people think of other lists? Is
> this not an issue let's say on AIfIA? AIfIA members are encouraged to be
> international, yet the list is completely English.
>
> Face-to-face meetings:
> If you live someplace, any place where you think you can get a critical mass
> of people who are interested in speaking about IxD over a beer (or pick your
> approprate beverage), then Hallelujah go for it. Send me an e-mail and we
> can think together about how to set this up. Non-US cities that have at
> least outreached to me with interest include: Toronto, Vienna, and London.
> Some cities have general UX events already and don't believe that a specific
> IxD event helps much, but in cities where there isn't any UX meetings,
> please do feel free to use IxD as a gathering point if you feel you have the
> critical mass.
>
> Announcements (name the city).
> Jobs and event announcements have to say the city. If they don't I
> immiediately send the poster a request to do just that. I even say it has to
> be in the subject line. So I'm not sure about the validity of the comment
> about postings.
>
> Now the content ... That's a different story. If people want to post
> announcements, please feel free to do so. Especially job announcements are
> easy. Event announcements are usually kept to those with IxD participation
> in some way. To be quite honest there just aren't that many. Yes, since I'm
> heavily involved in both NYC IxD and Uxnet, there are more of these types of
> announcements, but if IxD is represented within your local ambassordors
> network of Uxnet (something I encourage) and there are events for Uxnet,
> then go for it. I encourage it.
>
> The one thing that is interesting, is that no one mentioned that the content
> of the discussions around IxD are US-centric. Someone talked about how we
> assume the world owns an iPod, but other than that, discussions around
> internationalization are not often brought up--i.e. what the issues in
> designing a multi-lingual digital solution: iconography over text, dynamic
> text labelings, etc.
>
> Anyway, I believe that so far this thread has spoken about problem issues,
> and not too much about solutions. I have a list of people, mostly people who
> have requested to be translators (I know, this has been way too slow in
> happening, and I apologize) on a discussion list thinking about ixdg and
> i18n (internationalization). From the moment I joined the steering committee
> and envisioned IxDG, I knew I wanted it to be international. How could it
> not be? I saw the arguably successful efforts of AIfIA and believed that we
> could do similar things here. If you are indeed interested in discussing
> these issues, let me know and we can start up that e-mail list again for
> real hardy discussion regarding i18n.
>
> I look forward to people's thoughts regarding i18n and IxDG here on this
> thread for a while too.
>
> Oh! Re: the archives ... As Manu pointed out they are threaded and
> searchable. Everything you ever wanted to know about this list is at
> http://discuss.ixdg.org including a link to the archives, guidelines about
> use of the list and a help file to help you manage your own subscription.
>
> -- dave
>
> David Heller
> dave (at) ixdg (dot) org
> http://ixdg.org
> http://htmhell.com/
>
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>
>
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_______________________________
Tadej Maligoj, Information Architect
e1: tadej.maligoj at gmail.com
e2: studio at maligoj.com
m: 031 306 986
w: www.maligoj.com

17 Jan 2005 - 8:11am
Per Sökjer
2004

Swedish designer in...Sweden!

I agree with Ben, but for the moment I'm looking for a new job
somewhere in the world (pref: Canada) so job postings are
always welcome. :-)

I think the invitation to join this list got out to most of my former
and present colleagues and many signed up. But maybe they
hesitate to participate in discussions and mainly use the list as
some kind of input for reflection?
:Per

2005-01-17 kl. 12.11 skrev Ben Hunt:

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
>
> I'm in the UK.
>
> My only real gripe with respect to US-centric comments is job postings
> or notes about up-coming events that don't mention the city, state or
> country.
>
> My original post about "My 2c" was meant to be ironic. I was actually
> moaning about people hiding half-points behind "just my two cents"..
> (Thinks: Maybe I need to adjust my 'English' for those on the list for
> whom Sarcasm isn't their first language?)
>
> - Ben
>
>
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17 Jan 2005 - 9:32am
Susie Robson
2004

Ben said:

"My only real gripe with respect to US-centric comments is job postings or notes about up-coming events that don't mention the city, state or country."

I'm in the US, and that irks me as well. It's a rather large country and I have no desire to relocate. It's one of the first things I want to know--where is this.

Susie

17 Jan 2005 - 9:39am
Dave Malouf
2005

> "My only real gripe with respect to US-centric comments is
> job postings or notes about up-coming events that don't
> mention the city, state or country."

1. Just to re-iterate, You HAVE TO put the location on a job announcement.
2. There are no rules for events, but yes, it is considered proper form for
announcements to include location

But why is this a gripe for this list?
All Job announcements have the city mentioned (as much as I can, and pesker
everyone who doesn't)
All event announcements do as well.

Now, if the content has very little to do w/ your geographic area, that's a
different problem, which has probably more to do with demographics of the
list.

Something interesting is that it is impossible for me to know the exact make
up of the list and I do understand that language issues probably keep
non-Anglos from posting in the numbers that are here.

I do appreciate people taking up Ziya's call.

-- dave

17 Jan 2005 - 10:05am
Lada Gorlenko
2004

L> Is there anything that can be done to raise their overt participation?

YES!!
[And at low cost to touch-typing never-sleeping newyorkers, too ;-)]

LANGUAGE
Make non-english speakers comfortable by simplifying the language
of the discussion:

1. Avoid idioms and jargon, e.g., 'my two cents', 'apples and
oranges'(*) without explaining the terms.
The easy way is to exclude them from a note all together. The smart
way, however, is to keep them, but provide a brief footnote at the
end (helps non-native speakers to make their English more idiomatic,
which is always appreciated).

2. When explaing or making a comparison, do not rely on
culture-specific heroes (phenomena and characters).
Larry King (CNN talk show presenter famous for his direct, but
non-confrontational approach) and Monty Python (UK TV comedy series
renown for its very British sense of humour) are not world-wide
household names.

3. Spell out abbreviations and provide a brief annotation when
mentioning local organisations.
(FCC: Federal Communication Commission, US government agency
regulating TV, radio, and other media).

4. Spelling and punctuation rules (US vs UK) do not matter in
informal discussions, as long as the content of your message is clear.

LOCATION AWARENESS

1. Let list members know how many people share their geographies.

One day, it would be great to have Practitioners Profiles section on
the IxD website, where each can submit geography, expertise, and
background outline.
[This would also help understanding how many of us are 'designers' and
how many are Jacks-of-all-trades(**)]

For now, we can do a quick poll of geographies of the list members
and get people in touch with each other, if they wish so
(Dave, lets discuss logistics off-line).

2. Encourage geography-themed threads

What if different geographies would regularly tell us their stories:
this is how we do IxD in India and the problems we face; this is how
we do it in Russia and why it is different here.

We can develop a set of questions for geographies and ask people to
contribute to their 'country profiles'. Post them regularly and
discuss.

[In IBM, we have monthly UX Practitioners Newsletter sent to all
UX-related folks within the company. Each newsletter features 4-5
individual profiles, each person answering same set of questions.
Very interesting read, and a great networking tool. ]

MANNERS

1. It may seem obvious than when one talks about how one does things,
it is an open invitation for everyone else to share their experiences.
Nothing is obvious in other cultures. Dropping an explicit line at
the end "folks from other places, what is your take on this?" would
trigger more responses from across the globe.

[You see, it takes just one person (thank you, Ziya) and a couple of
questions to keep the snowball rolling!]

2. Encourage reports from local events. My personal thanks to Dave and
the rest who frequently post reports on their get-togethers. I envy
your First Fridays, Second Wednesdays and whatever (sob, sob)...
And I find the reports, materials, and discussions triggered by
them are very interesting and useful indeed. Keep up!

Lada

-------------
(*) Apples and oranges ('apples and pears' in the UK): unlike objects
or persons
(**) Jack-of-all-trade: a person who can do many different kinds of
work

17 Jan 2005 - 10:16am
Marcin Wichary
2004

> 1. Avoid idioms and jargon, e.g., 'my two cents', 'apples and
> oranges'(*) without explaining the terms.
> The easy way is to exclude them from a note all together. The smart
> way, however, is to keep them, but provide a brief footnote at the
> end (helps non-native speakers to make their English more idiomatic,
> which is always appreciated).

Thanks for that remark. I'm a non-English speaker, and while I do have
problems with idioms and jargon sometimes, you can still count me
against "dumbing down" the language. As a member of English-speaking
forum I feel it's mine and not the others' responsibility to adjust. I
am used to go to www.onelook.com or www.dictionary.com for words and
idioms, and www.acronymfinder.com or www.wikipedia.org for acronyms --
hope that helps someone.

Marcin Wichary
e:\> mwichary at usability.pl
w:\> www.aci.com.pl/mwichary >> Attached
w:\> www.aci.com.pl/mwichary/gui >> Graphical User Interface gallery
w:\> www.10yearsofbeingboring.com >> 10 years of Being Boring
w:\> www.usability.pl >> Usability.pl

17 Jan 2005 - 10:40am
Lada Gorlenko
2004

MW> Thanks for that remark. I'm a non-English speaker, and while I do have
MW> problems with idioms and jargon sometimes, you can still count me
MW> against "dumbing down" the language. As a member of English-speaking
MW> forum I feel it's mine and not the others' responsibility to adjust. I
MW> am used to go to www.onelook.com or www.dictionary.com for words and
MW> idioms, and www.acronymfinder.com or www.wikipedia.org for acronyms --
MW> hope that helps someone.

Marcin,

There was no attempt to "dumb down" the language (I am not a native
English speaker either). Language matters aside, effective communication
is the responsibility of all parties involved. The clearer the message,
the better the response. Efficiency-wise, it's easier for the writer to
give an explanation of a potentially difficult to understand term once,
than for several readers to take personal responsibility for someone's
wording.

We are all creators and we are all users of this list. You, as a
designer, don't want every user to take personal responsibility for
*your* design, right? :-)

Lada

17 Jan 2005 - 10:40am
Ben Hunt
2004

Dave, I'm sure that city is required for job posts and meetings, but
that doesn't mean it's always there. It's not worth arguing about, but
that's the fact.

One thing this discussion may illustrate is that someone in the US may
implicitly read the city in a posting (because of 'local' knowledge)
even if the city isn't actually written.

As aliens, I guess Per and I are more sensitive to such differences.

17 Jan 2005 - 10:51am
Sarah Brodwall
2004

This is a topic I've been thinking about quite a lot lately. I live
in Norway and am a student in an IxD-related field here, but I'm
actually an American expat. It's like pulling teeth to get any sort
of extracurricular involvement from Norwegians, be they students or
already in the field (and that goes for all Norwegians, not just those
involved with UX). Aifia-DA, Aifia's mailing list for the whole of
Scandinavia, just folded this week due to lack of interest and
participation: I think in total there'd been less than 10 messages
since the list's inception. There also seems to be little interest in
discussion on one purely Norwegian UX mailing list I'm on (and yeah, I
do try to start discussions myself). This saddens me so much, because
I have joined these groups as a student so I can network and get to
know what the UX culture is like in Norway. I hate to say it, but
from my experiences with living here, maybe it's the case that the
stereotype of the laconic Scandinavian is true. From my end of
things, it just doesn't seem like most Norwegians are interested in
much group participation.

17 Jan 2005 - 10:57am
jarango
2004

> 2. When explaing or making a comparison, do not rely on
> culture-specific heroes (phenomena and characters).

I guess the term "babelfish" is out. :-)

--
Jorge Arango
http://www.jarango.com

17 Jan 2005 - 10:57am
Elizabeth Buie
2004

Ben Hunt writes:

<<One thing this discussion may illustrate is that someone in the US may
implicitly read the city in a posting (because of 'local' knowledge)
even if the city isn't actually written.>>

Or people in California may assume that everyone knows which bay is meant
by "the Bay Area"...

Elizabeth, who takes wicked pleasure in pointing out that the Chesapeake
Bay is some 30 times as large as the San Francisco Bay :-)

--
Elizabeth Buie
Computer Sciences Corporation
Rockville, Maryland, USA
+1.301.921.3326

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17 Jan 2005 - 11:00am
Gerard Torenvliet
2004

Sarah:

Have you ever tried getting in touch with the SIGCHI chapters around
there. I know that the various SIGCHI chapters host a biennial
conference called "NordiCHI". From the NordiCHI site
(www.nordichi.org) I read of a group called "Den Norske Dataforening"
(http://dataforeningen.no/ostlandet/bits/). Since my Norwegian is
rusty, I can't tell you much more about them... :-)

I have, however, been to one of the NordiCHI conferences and I can
tell you that human-centred design is alive and very well in the
Nordic countries.

Cheers,
-Gerard
--
Gerard Torenvliet
g.torenvliet at gmail.com

17 Jan 2005 - 3:03pm
Ulla Tønner
2004

Lada wrote:
> L> Is there anything that can be done to raise their overt participation?
>
> YES!!
> [And at low cost to touch-typing never-sleeping newyorkers, too ;-)]
>
> 1. Let list members know how many people share their geographies.
>
> One day, it would be great to have Practitioners Profiles section on
> the IxD website, where each can submit geography, expertise, and
> background outline.
> [This would also help understanding how many of us are 'designers' and
> how many are Jacks-of-all-trades(**)]
>
> For now, we can do a quick poll of geographies of the list members
> and get people in touch with each other, if they wish so
> (Dave, lets discuss logistics off-line).

And everyone could close their posting with their name, title or field of
work, and country. I sometimes find the postings quite anonymous because I
have a hard time picturing the person writing. It would be nice to know,
whether it's a student, a psychologist, a designer or a person doing
research for a company.

Ulla

Usability specialist, software company, Denmark

17 Jan 2005 - 3:24pm
Listera
2004

OK, it appears that there are some non-American folk here. Delightful. My
purpose in raising this issue, however, was less than totally altruistic.
:-)

Located in the capital of the world [1], I always feel like there are lots
of stuff around the globe I'm missing out on: early WAP stuff in Europe, all
kinds of bizarre mobile stuff in Japan, effects of huge broadband
penetration in South Korea, moving from backend programming to frontend
design in India, wireless society in Scandinavia, etc. I have lots of
questions like: why folks in France, Italy and Germany so good with making
useful and beautiful physical objects fallen so behind in digital ones?
Should designers look to government projects in South America as the engine
that pulls usability towards mass recognition? And so on.

I'd love for 'non-Americans' to raise these issues here once in a while, so
the rest of us can learn. I'd love for them to make references to local
issues when appropriate. Curious minds want to know [2].

Ziya
Nullius in Verba

[1] That would be New York City, for the uninitiated :-)
[2] That's a reference you don't want to know. :-)

17 Jan 2005 - 4:26pm
Listera
2004

> I always feel like there are lots of stuff around the globe I'm missing out on

For instance, this great interview with one of the Pentagram partners,
Michael Bierut:

A good client understands that details count. A long time ago, I had a
client I had inherited -- and who wasn't one of my favorites. I really
wasn't getting along with him. Every time I called and got put on hold this
horrible recorded music would come on. Eventually a new person was hired to
take this guy's place. He turned out to be a great client. When I called him
and got put on hold, the music was better. That was the first sign that the
situation was going to improve. And when I visited his office, the ugly,
plastic potted plant that had been in the corner was gone.

The uncontrolled nature of the visual environment that we all grow up with
in America has led us to assume that details don't count that much -- and by
extension, that the way places and things look isn't all that important.
Over the last five or 10 years this has started to change, but there's still
a certain "I don't really care what it looks like as long as it sells,"
mentality and a feeling that paying attention to design is akin to taking
one's eye off the ball. My guess is that in Milan it would be tough to find
anyone with those attitude.

<http://www.fastcompany.com/articles/2004/12/bierut-pentagram.html>

nicely points out the differing design sensibilities between Italian and
American clients. I'd love to hear people chime in with such distinctions
when appropriate on the list.

Ziya
Nullius in Verba

17 Jan 2005 - 7:57pm
Jachin Sheehy
2004

> How many designers are on this list from 'other' countries?

I'm of Irish extraction, based in Fiji (that's in the South Pacific).

> Is there anything that can be done to raise their overt participation?

I enjoy reading the list, and very occasionally post to it.
Particularly enjoy the links that people post to research, etc.

Jachin Sheehy
internetfiji.com

17 Jan 2005 - 8:14pm
Bennett, Louise
2005

I'm an Australian working in Australia but was until recently working in the
US for a few years so was a non-american in America (fondly referred to by
the IRS as a resident alien), which was an interesting experience.

I have to admit I'm a bit of a forum lurker, and only rarely speak up on
topics being discussed. A lot of this has to do with the time difference -
most topics are well and truly chewed over by the time I wake up and get
online, so I'm usually just reading a transcript of the whole thing as it
occurred when people not living in the best country in the world were up and
about ;)

I have posed design problems I've had in the past though, and have always
received considered and helpful suggestions, which is a huge help when
you're living and working in a country (Australia) where usability/UCD/IxD
or whatever you want to call it is still a fledgling industry (by
comparison).

Louise.

User Experience Consultant
Sydney, Australia.

-----Original Message-----
From:
discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.
com] On Behalf Of Jachin Sheehy
Sent: Tuesday, 18 January 2005 11:58 AM
To: IxD
Subject: Re: [ID Discuss] The non-Americans

[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]

> How many designers are on this list from 'other' countries?

I'm of Irish extraction, based in Fiji (that's in the South Pacific).

> Is there anything that can be done to raise their overt participation?

I enjoy reading the list, and very occasionally post to it.
Particularly enjoy the links that people post to research, etc.

Jachin Sheehy
internetfiji.com
_______________________________________________
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17 Jan 2005 - 7:22pm
Andrei Herasimchuk
2004

Elizabeth Buie wrote:

> Or people in California may assume that everyone knows which bay is meant
> by "the Bay Area"...

Come on now... The Bay Area is like the 26th largest economy on the
planet inside a state that is like the 5th or 6th largest. I think we
have a little room to I18N our own identity. We've earned it. 8^)

> Elizabeth, who takes wicked pleasure in pointing out that the Chesapeake
> Bay is some 30 times as large as the San Francisco Bay :-)

Yeah... but it's in Maryland. 8^P

Andrei

17 Jan 2005 - 8:39pm
Jachin Sheehy
2004

It's messages like this that we internationals can't really appreciate :-)

>From one whose entire country is so insignificant, he can't even find
where it falls on the scale of Xth largest economies...

Cheers,
Jachin Sheehy

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:22:51 -0800, Andrei Herasimchuk
<andrei at designbyfire.com> wrote:
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> Elizabeth Buie wrote:
>
> > Or people in California may assume that everyone knows which bay is meant
> > by "the Bay Area"...
>
> Come on now... The Bay Area is like the 26th largest economy on the
> planet inside a state that is like the 5th or 6th largest. I think we
> have a little room to I18N our own identity. We've earned it. 8^)
>
> > Elizabeth, who takes wicked pleasure in pointing out that the Chesapeake
> > Bay is some 30 times as large as the San Francisco Bay :-)
>
> Yeah... but it's in Maryland. 8^P
>
> Andrei
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at ixdg.org
> --
> to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest): http://discuss.ixdg.org/
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>

17 Jan 2005 - 8:54pm
stephan at wiss...
2005

discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
wrote on 17/01/2005 16:17:28:

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
material.]
> How many designers are on this list from 'other' countries?
Coming forward: I'm German born living in Singapore
:-) stw

17 Jan 2005 - 8:40pm
Hoffmann, Olive...
2005

I am Austrian, living in Australia

And I am not a designer

Concerning the "we've earned it" attitude (see below): There are 2 ways
for extermitating a pest:
(a) you cut it, but then it will most likely come back
(b) you feed it growth enhancers, then it will grow too quick to develop
proper structural support, collapse, and die
in this spirit, and with the planet-wide campaign of american
megalomania in full swing: yes, Elizabeth, you are right, California is
the center of the universe. Keep on swinging.

-----Original Message-----
From:
discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesign
ers.com] On Behalf Of Andrei Herasimchuk
Sent: Tuesday, 18 January 2005 10:53 AM
Cc: discuss at interactiondesigners.com
Subject: Re: [ID Discuss] The non-Americans

[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
material.]

Elizabeth Buie wrote:

> Or people in California may assume that everyone knows which bay is
> meant
> by "the Bay Area"...

Come on now... The Bay Area is like the 26th largest economy on the
planet inside a state that is like the 5th or 6th largest. I think we
have a little room to I18N our own identity. We've earned it. 8^)

> Elizabeth, who takes wicked pleasure in pointing out that the
> Chesapeake
> Bay is some 30 times as large as the San Francisco Bay :-)

Yeah... but it's in Maryland. 8^P

Andrei
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17 Jan 2005 - 11:06pm
Listera
2004

> I am Austrian...

Above all, design, not being library science or colonoscopy [1], ought to be
fun.

I can't speak for those from Minnesota or a state whose governor is a B
movie actor [2], but in New York City, we'd like to mix sarcasm, irony,
bravado and other sins with the practice of design. One way to dissipate the
energy of an online community like this is to turn it into an antiseptic
exchange of research paper links.

I'm just sayin'.

Ziya
Nullius in Verba

[1] joke
[2] Andrei sure doesn't need me to defend himself

18 Jan 2005 - 2:13am
Andrei Herasimchuk
2004

On Jan 17, 2005, at 5:40 PM, Hoffmann, Oliver - HOFOY001 wrote:

> yes, Elizabeth, you are right, California is
> the center of the universe. Keep on swinging.

Just to be clear... It was joke.

Andrei

18 Jan 2005 - 2:23am
Hoffmann, Olive...
2005

No worries ;)

I hope you enjoyed my joke as well

-----Original Message-----
From:
discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesign
ers.com] On Behalf Of Andrei Herasimchuk
Sent: Tuesday, 18 January 2005 5:44 PM
To: 'id-discuss' Designers'
Subject: Re: [ID Discuss] The non-Americans

[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
material.]

On Jan 17, 2005, at 5:40 PM, Hoffmann, Oliver - HOFOY001 wrote:

> yes, Elizabeth, you are right, California is
> the center of the universe. Keep on swinging.

Just to be clear... It was joke.

Andrei

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18 Jan 2005 - 2:40am
Tadej Maligoj
2004

> Just to be clear... It was joke.

That's what I expect to hear from the man who attack a country on the
other side of a planet.
Sorry to mix politics here. But talking about Americans and others:
such "jokes" rise little popularity around the planet.

Tadej

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:13:48 -0800, Andrei Herasimchuk
<andrei at involutionstudios.com> wrote:
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> On Jan 17, 2005, at 5:40 PM, Hoffmann, Oliver - HOFOY001 wrote:
>
> > yes, Elizabeth, you are right, California is
> > the center of the universe. Keep on swinging.
>
> Just to be clear... It was joke.
>
> Andrei
>
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at ixdg.org
> --
> to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest): http://discuss.ixdg.org/
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> http://ixdg.org/
>

--
_______________________________
Tadej Maligoj, Information Architect
e1: tadej.maligoj at gmail.com
e2: studio at maligoj.com
m: 031 306 986
w: www.maligoj.com

18 Jan 2005 - 4:26am
Andrei Herasimchuk
2004

On Jan 17, 2005, at 11:40 PM, Tadej Maligoj wrote:

>> Just to be clear... It was joke.
>
> That's what I expect to hear from the man who attack a country on the
> other side of a planet.

I have utterly no idea what you are talking about.. But you're more
than welcome to read my very vocal and very open political opinions on
the Iraq War in a little informational design exercise I did that was
anything but supportive of our current president. I'll not say a word
about them him for obvious non-related content reasons to this list.

http://www.designbyfire.com/000150.html

> Sorry to mix politics here. But talking about Americans and others:
> such "jokes" rise little popularity around the planet.

I blame Elizabeth. She started this international turf war by claiming
Chesapeake Bay was much bigger than the Bay Area. (Oh wait, now I get
it... she just meant they had more polluted water than we did. Silly
me.) Shame on you Elizabeth, you trouble maker!

Want to start a movement to impeach Bush? I'll be the first in line.

Andrei

18 Jan 2005 - 5:00am
Peter Boersma
2003

Ziya wrote:
> I'd love for 'non-Americans' to raise these issues here once in a while,
so
> the rest of us can learn. I'd love for them to make references to local
> issues when appropriate.

Hah! In the last year, as a Dutch (that's from "The Netherlands" a.k.a.
"Holland") designer, I've been working on web applications for the United
Kingdom and Jamaica, and only a couple of days on local applications.

Still, I'll see if anything comes to mind :-)

Peter
--
Peter Boersma - Senior Information Architect - EzGov
Rijnsburgstraat 11 - 1059AT Amsterdam - The Netherlands
t: +31(0)20 7133881 - f: +31(0)20 7133799 - m: +31(0)6 15072747
mailto:peter.boersma at ezgov.com - http://www.ezgov.com

18 Jan 2005 - 5:22am
Tadej Maligoj
2004

I was sorry the moment I pushed the button. I really don't want to
start political debate on this forum . It's far too good for this. Mea
culpa. I'll think twice next time.

What I - in the context of the contribution to this forum of
non-Americans - wanted to say is: beside the arguments which was
stated here already (language barrier, gadget unaccessibility, ...),
emphasizing US superiority is another reason for us others to stand
quietly aside. It is not just you:
> I have lots of
> questions like: why folks in France, Italy and Germany so good with making
> useful and beautiful physical objects fallen so behind in digital ones?

It know this is caused by diferences in cultures. In different
personal approaches. A wide topic. I would hardly articulate this here
in a fluent english, and I also think this forum is not the place for
it.

I would say these little differences is just another reason why we
(the others) are bit retained on this forum. Making us small,
not-important or week would make us even more passive.

Tadej

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:26:27 -0800, Andrei Herasimchuk
<andrei at involutionstudios.com> wrote:
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> On Jan 17, 2005, at 11:40 PM, Tadej Maligoj wrote:
>
> >> Just to be clear... It was joke.
> >
> > That's what I expect to hear from the man who attack a country on the
> > other side of a planet.
>
> I have utterly no idea what you are talking about.. But you're more
> than welcome to read my very vocal and very open political opinions on
> the Iraq War in a little informational design exercise I did that was
> anything but supportive of our current president. I'll not say a word
> about them him for obvious non-related content reasons to this list.
>
> http://www.designbyfire.com/000150.html
>
> > Sorry to mix politics here. But talking about Americans and others:
> > such "jokes" rise little popularity around the planet.
>
> I blame Elizabeth. She started this international turf war by claiming
> Chesapeake Bay was much bigger than the Bay Area. (Oh wait, now I get
> it... she just meant they had more polluted water than we did. Silly
> me.) Shame on you Elizabeth, you trouble maker!
>
> Want to start a movement to impeach Bush? I'll be the first in line.
>
> Andrei
>
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at ixdg.org
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--
_______________________________
Tadej Maligoj, Information Architect
e1: tadej.maligoj at gmail.com
e2: studio at maligoj.com
m: 031 306 986
w: www.maligoj.com

18 Jan 2005 - 6:30am
Pierre Abel
2004

Listera wrote:

>I have lots of
>questions like: why folks in France, Italy and Germany so good with making
>useful and beautiful physical objects fallen so behind in digital ones?
>
>
>
Hello!

I'm French working as software/usability engineer in...France (on the
french riviera, where there is a kind of french silicon valley....)..

About you question, I feel that we all have the same problem. Digital
products are still mostly designed by engineers who don't really think
about the user experience.
It takes times to update the development cycle to be more
"user-centered".....But it will change for sure (I hope so for my future
work!)

About the list, it's very educative..In particular, people experience
is very interesting (I've have a big interest in methodologies and
organization of the work to make products really usable)...

Pierre

18 Jan 2005 - 4:40am
Sharon Dennison
2005

Another Australian (Aussie) living/working in Australia

I would have to agree that the time difference would be the main reason I
don't have as much chance as I would like to participate in different
threads. Generally by the time I logon after getting home from work and
checking messages the discussion is pretty much over.

Still I find the content is interesting and as a Community Of Practice
leader in a large organisation I often find informative articles, design
ideas, etc to pass onto my colleagues.

Speaking of which, here is an article about how some new FBI software is
considered to be unusable and is therefore proving to be an expensive way
for them to gather user information and input into a new design.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/latimests/20050113/ts_latimes
/newfbisoftwaremaybeunusable&e=5

Sharon Dennison
User Experience Designer
Brisbane

Louise Bennett wrote:
I'm an Australian working in Australia but was until recently working in the
US for a few years so was a non-american in America (fondly referred to by
the IRS as a resident alien), which was an interesting experience.

18 Jan 2005 - 12:25pm
Robert Alexander
2005

Hello everyone,

This seems like as good a time to introduce myself as any. I've been
lurking on the list for several months now.

I'm in Canada, in a rural area not too far from Toronto. So,
language is not an issue for me. Well, so long as it's English. :-)

I'm not formally employed as an interaction designer -- I'm a
programmer and analyst -- but, because I'm passionate about it, and
have been for over 20 years, I'm the person who usually beats the
drum for good design and who gets consulted on design issues. I
currently work in a small division of a Large American Corporation.

I also have a number of personal projects, and I teach seminars on
Interface Design.

I very much enjoy the discussion on this list. Hopefully, I'll be
able to contribute in the future.

All the best,
Rob

18 Jan 2005 - 1:38pm
Andrei Herasimchuk
2004

On Jan 18, 2005, at 2:22 AM, Tadej Maligoj wrote:

> What I - in the context of the contribution to this forum of
> non-Americans - wanted to say is: beside the arguments which was
> stated here already (language barrier, gadget unaccessibility, ...),
> emphasizing US superiority is another reason for us others to stand
> quietly aside. It is not just you:

Interesting point of view. At what time on this list has anyone
"emphasized US superiority." I just happen to live 2 miles due east of
Apple's corporate headquarters in Cupertino. I just happen to live 5
miles north of Intel's main campus in Santa Clara. I just happen to
live 3 miles south of Google's main campus in Mountain View. Adobe
Systems is 13 miles south. Oracle is 15 miles north. Intuit, AOL,
Yahoo! and a ton of other tech companies who specifically need
interface designers are all here.

That's not superiority. That's just access to companies who
specifically need designers to build products. I used to live in
Massachusetts. I moved here specifically to get close to the heart of
what I do in my career. I don't think anyone on this list has claimed
US superiority, and Ziya was being toungue-in-cheek about New York City
because... well, he's Ziya.

I often wished I lived in the U.K or The Netherlands these days. Or
even in Italy for IVREA. The design work going on there is really
cutting edge and wonderful. I've said that many times openly. At the
same time, those of interface designers here in Silicon Valley *have*
done a lot for the craft of UX, IA, interface design, whatever you want
to call it. We have in our own ways helped elevate the field globally.
I personally feel I have done a lot for the field by elevating the
position everywhere I work to make sure very large companies understand
the importance of having good interface designers along with their
highly-paid engineers.

I helped start a design division inside one of the top three software
makers on the planet which is now 60+ people strong. (That would be
Adobe of course.) When I started, it was basically just me, and that
was 1995! I couldn't have done that anywhere else on the planet due to
many different circumstances, much in the same way the Renaissance
couldn't have happened anywhere but in Europe given the circumstances.

Being proud of that history is nothing I will ever feel ashamed of and
I doubt I'll ever feel sorry if it ever comes across as "superiority."
I don't think of it that way.

> I would say these little differences is just another reason why we
> (the others) are bit retained on this forum. Making us small,
> not-important or week would make us even more passive.

No one is doing that from what I can tell. In fact, given the very
large vocal response to this thread, I'd dare say you guys just took
over the list. 8^)

Andrei

18 Jan 2005 - 1:57pm
jarango
2004

> In fact, given the very
> large vocal response to this thread, I'd dare say you guys just took
> over the list. 8^)

¡¡Viva la Revolución!!

--
Jorge Arango
http://www.jarango.com

18 Jan 2005 - 3:53pm
Ron Fordham
2004

To make sure those in other countries do not feel they are alone, there
are some of us here in the states that are also not "ready" to open up
on this list yet, but our day will come, when our knowledge has
expanded, and the time is right.

----------r-o-n-----------
Visual Interface Designer, Auburn, Alabama

Andrei Herasimchuk wrote:

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
>
> On Jan 18, 2005, at 2:22 AM, Tadej Maligoj wrote:
>
>> What I - in the context of the contribution to this forum of
>> non-Americans - wanted to say is: beside the arguments which was
>> stated here already (language barrier, gadget unaccessibility, ...),
>> emphasizing US superiority is another reason for us others to stand
>> quietly aside. It is not just you:
>
>
> Interesting point of view. At what time on this list has anyone
> "emphasized US superiority." I just happen to live 2 miles due east of
> Apple's corporate headquarters in Cupertino. I just happen to live 5
> miles north of Intel's main campus in Santa Clara. I just happen to
> live 3 miles south of Google's main campus in Mountain View. Adobe
> Systems is 13 miles south. Oracle is 15 miles north. Intuit, AOL,
> Yahoo! and a ton of other tech companies who specifically need
> interface designers are all here.
>
> That's not superiority. That's just access to companies who
> specifically need designers to build products. I used to live in
> Massachusetts. I moved here specifically to get close to the heart of
> what I do in my career. I don't think anyone on this list has claimed
> US superiority, and Ziya was being toungue-in-cheek about New York
> City because... well, he's Ziya.
>
> I often wished I lived in the U.K or The Netherlands these days. Or
> even in Italy for IVREA. The design work going on there is really
> cutting edge and wonderful. I've said that many times openly. At the
> same time, those of interface designers here in Silicon Valley *have*
> done a lot for the craft of UX, IA, interface design, whatever you
> want to call it. We have in our own ways helped elevate the field
> globally. I personally feel I have done a lot for the field by
> elevating the position everywhere I work to make sure very large
> companies understand the importance of having good interface designers
> along with their highly-paid engineers.
>
> I helped start a design division inside one of the top three software
> makers on the planet which is now 60+ people strong. (That would be
> Adobe of course.) When I started, it was basically just me, and that
> was 1995! I couldn't have done that anywhere else on the planet due to
> many different circumstances, much in the same way the Renaissance
> couldn't have happened anywhere but in Europe given the circumstances.
>
> Being proud of that history is nothing I will ever feel ashamed of and
> I doubt I'll ever feel sorry if it ever comes across as "superiority."
> I don't think of it that way.
>
>> I would say these little differences is just another reason why we
>> (the others) are bit retained on this forum. Making us small,
>> not-important or week would make us even more passive.
>
>
> No one is doing that from what I can tell. In fact, given the very
> large vocal response to this thread, I'd dare say you guys just took
> over the list. 8^)
>
> Andrei
>
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at ixdg.org
> --
> to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest):
> http://discuss.ixdg.org/
> --
> Questions: lists at ixdg.org
> --
> Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements
> already)
> http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
> --
> http://ixdg.org/
>

18 Jan 2005 - 6:06pm
Listera
2004

Andrei Herasimchuk:

> I often wished I lived in the U.K or The Netherlands

Andrei Herasimchuk meet Martijn van Welie:

I live in the Netherlands, a small country between the UK and Germany...

- Although the Netherlands is historically known for its achievements in
'Design', there are probably 15,9 million people in the Netherlands who
still have no clue about design!!! Our clients are usually among them.

:-)

Ziya
Nullius in Verba

18 Jan 2005 - 7:35pm
Tadej Maligoj
2004

About the funny little differencies [1]:
I just happen to live one hour ride from the adriatic coast, half an
hour ride to the ski resort in the Alps, two hours ride to Venice and
one more to Vienna. I bike to the mountain from my backyard and ski
across the meadows from my house door at winter.

I wouldn't exchange that for famous trademarks. I do design for
living. I just don't believe IT would be another Renaissance for
humans.

Maybe I am just too old for this s... [2] ;+)

Tadej

[1] J. Travolta in Pulp Fiction
[2] From Leathal Weapon, all volumes.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:38:19 -0800, Andrei Herasimchuk
<andrei at involutionstudios.com> wrote:
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> On Jan 18, 2005, at 2:22 AM, Tadej Maligoj wrote:
>
> > What I - in the context of the contribution to this forum of
> > non-Americans - wanted to say is: beside the arguments which was
> > stated here already (language barrier, gadget unaccessibility, ...),
> > emphasizing US superiority is another reason for us others to stand
> > quietly aside. It is not just you:
>
> Interesting point of view. At what time on this list has anyone
> "emphasized US superiority." I just happen to live 2 miles due east of
> Apple's corporate headquarters in Cupertino. I just happen to live 5
> miles north of Intel's main campus in Santa Clara. I just happen to
> live 3 miles south of Google's main campus in Mountain View. Adobe
> Systems is 13 miles south. Oracle is 15 miles north. Intuit, AOL,
> Yahoo! and a ton of other tech companies who specifically need
> interface designers are all here.
>
> That's not superiority. That's just access to companies who
> specifically need designers to build products. I used to live in
> Massachusetts. I moved here specifically to get close to the heart of
> what I do in my career. I don't think anyone on this list has claimed
> US superiority, and Ziya was being toungue-in-cheek about New York City
> because... well, he's Ziya.
>
> I often wished I lived in the U.K or The Netherlands these days. Or
> even in Italy for IVREA. The design work going on there is really
> cutting edge and wonderful. I've said that many times openly. At the
> same time, those of interface designers here in Silicon Valley *have*
> done a lot for the craft of UX, IA, interface design, whatever you want
> to call it. We have in our own ways helped elevate the field globally.
> I personally feel I have done a lot for the field by elevating the
> position everywhere I work to make sure very large companies understand
> the importance of having good interface designers along with their
> highly-paid engineers.
>
> I helped start a design division inside one of the top three software
> makers on the planet which is now 60+ people strong. (That would be
> Adobe of course.) When I started, it was basically just me, and that
> was 1995! I couldn't have done that anywhere else on the planet due to
> many different circumstances, much in the same way the Renaissance
> couldn't have happened anywhere but in Europe given the circumstances.
>
> Being proud of that history is nothing I will ever feel ashamed of and
> I doubt I'll ever feel sorry if it ever comes across as "superiority."
> I don't think of it that way.
>
> > I would say these little differences is just another reason why we
> > (the others) are bit retained on this forum. Making us small,
> > not-important or week would make us even more passive.
>
> No one is doing that from what I can tell. In fact, given the very
> large vocal response to this thread, I'd dare say you guys just took
> over the list. 8^)
>
> Andrei
>
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at ixdg.org
> --
> to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest): http://discuss.ixdg.org/
> --
> Questions: lists at ixdg.org
> --
> Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements already)
> http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
> --
> http://ixdg.org/
>

--
_______________________________
Tadej Maligoj, Information Architect
e1: tadej.maligoj at gmail.com
e2: studio at maligoj.com
m: 031 306 986
w: www.maligoj.com

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