Palm Pre

15 Jun 2009 - 8:16pm
5 years ago
21 replies
556 reads
jstanford
2003

So the Palm Pre came out recently but I have not seen the kind of buzz on
this list like we saw for the iPhone. I tried out a friend's device recently
and was really impressed. Notably, I think that the lack of background
processing and the ban on multiple apps running at once on the iPhone is its
Achilles heel. Pre does not have that limitation along with what looked to
be an elegant UI and a nice keyboard.

Does anyone have this device and care to report back?

Julie

_____________________________________________________

Julie Stanford
Principal, Sliced Bread Design

650-969-0400 x706

Comments

15 Jun 2009 - 8:40pm
Jarod Tang
2007

And, hopefully, Pre maybe more one-hand-friendly, :). But frankly speaking,
an better batter life will make it better ( it's in the scope of interaction
design as well )

Cheers,
-- Jarod

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Julie Stanford <julie at slicedbreaddesign.com
> wrote:

> So the Palm Pre came out recently but I have not seen the kind of buzz on
> this list like we saw for the iPhone. I tried out a friend's device
> recently
> and was really impressed. Notably, I think that the lack of background
> processing and the ban on multiple apps running at once on the iPhone is
> its
> Achilles heel. Pre does not have that limitation along with what looked to
> be an elegant UI and a nice keyboard.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have this device and care to report back?
>
>
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________
>
> Julie Stanford
> Principal, Sliced Bread Design
>
> 650-969-0400 x706
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
http://designforuse.blogspot.com/

16 Jun 2009 - 10:07am
Den Serras
2009

I'm hearing the Pre has exactly the kind of battery problems that the
iPhone doesn't have, because all those background apps suck power. I
can certainly say that if I forget to close an app on my WinMo
crapjack it drains faster.

On the other hand, you can carry extra batteries for the Pre. So what
if a battery only lasts half a day?

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16 Jun 2009 - 10:10am
Jarod Tang
2007

i guess you tells about the AIM app on pre. seems they are coming up with a
fix for this?

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Den Serras <dennitzio at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'm hearing the Pre has exactly the kind of battery problems that the
> iPhone doesn't have, because all those background apps suck power. I
> can certainly say that if I forget to close an app on my WinMo
> crapjack it drains faster.
>
> On the other hand, you can carry extra batteries for the Pre. So what
> if a battery only lasts half a day?
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Posted from the new ixda.org
> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=42837
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
http://designforuse.blogspot.com/

16 Jun 2009 - 11:25am
dszuc
2005

With Smartphones becoming more popular and affordable - what are the
critical differentiators when selecting between phones?

When products start to assume similar looks, what makes something
stand out from the crowd?

For example, battery life. Others?

rgds,
Dan

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16 Jun 2009 - 11:33am
Den Serras
2009

I'd say integration and excitement. Meaning it has to answer the
question "how well does it fit with my existing computer system,
PIM, music service, service provider, headset, etc.?" and "how much
does this phone excite me about doing things I couldn't before?"

We don't even have a way of reliably prejudging two of the most
critical, battery life and signal reception/transmission, since it
varies so much by usage.

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16 Jun 2009 - 11:40am
jstanford
2003

I think for the Pre it is going to be about growing apps in the app store
and showing how much more you can do with it than the iPhone. I know I'm
harping on the background processing thing but it is so key to being able to
do anything cool. The iPhone can't notice something around you that you're
interested and tell you about it, it can't notify someone else something
about your status that it knows -- it basically can't do much that is
"smart" on its own. Everything involves the user having to do something
which is really limiting. I think that once the apps for the Pre are
unleashed that harness the power of backgroundprocessing and
multi-threading, that device is going to be incredibly appealing.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Den
Serras
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:34 AM
To: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Palm Pre

I'd say integration and excitement. Meaning it has to answer the
question "how well does it fit with my existing computer system,
PIM, music service, service provider, headset, etc.?" and "how much
does this phone excite me about doing things I couldn't before?"

We don't even have a way of reliably prejudging two of the most
critical, battery life and signal reception/transmission, since it
varies so much by usage.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=42837

________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
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16 Jun 2009 - 11:56am
Karl Proctor
2008

For me, something that would make a device 'stand out from the
crowd' would be a decent battery life, even if it meant a little
more weight. I've had the original (2G) iPhone for around 18 months
or so now and my biggest gripe is the poor battery life. Even on a
good day I would be lucky to get close to 2 days usage between
charges (no wifi, no email and 2-3 hours iPod per day). At the moment
the battery life is barely 24 hours, so I'm looking to upgrade to a
newer mobile. My choices are either the Pre or the LG Arena, but the
biggest deciding factor will be the battery life and I'll happily
pay extra if needed for better performance...

-Karl

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17 Jun 2009 - 11:11am
Den Serras
2009

I'm curious about the charging thing - I've kept the charger next to
my bed for so many years now (both phone and Palm when they were
separate devices) that charge hasn't been an issue since the 90s.
Admittedly, I have to bring a charger on trips, but that's no big
deal.

Why do people even try to go more than one day on a charge?

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17 Jun 2009 - 11:21am
Karl Proctor
2008

I guess mainly its habit; Before the Lithium Ion (Lion?) batteries,
one had to 'condition' a battery with a regular full-empty-full
cycle because of battery memory (especially NiMH). But, even with
modern Lion batteries, I've noticed that if you dont do the regular
full-empty-full cycle then the battery performance degrades, even
though 'experts' say that you dont need to do so. Even Apple
suggest that the cycle should be completed at least once a month...

-Karl

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17 Jun 2009 - 12:07pm
Nasir Barday
2006

The reason Apple got so many people excited is that they designed MORE THAN
JUST A DEVICE. From end to end, they've created an ecosystem: Phone platform
software, easy data management with a built-in store, and most importantly
for the latest wave: great developer tools. People who are already OSX
developers can dive in and make iPhone apps. And Apple has made their
platform platform easy (and pleasing!) for people to pick up and be able to
kick out satisfying, pleasing apps in a matter of days. The stuff you get
for free (e.g. transition animations) rewards you for the effort you put
into building the app. Can't really say that for Android. You couldn't say
that about Palm OS back in the day, either. Maybe the story is different
today. My eyes and ears are still open. But I don't see anyone showing off
their Pre apps yet.

And background processes are a red herring. What compelling functionality
does it enable? Location logging? Notifications when I receive an IM? You
can achieve these without battery-draining background processing.

For Palm to be successful with the Pre device, it needs to blow the doors
off of the story OUTSIDE of the device, making the information management
and app development goals pleasing, too. No amount of background processing
is going to help me as a developer if I find myself frustrated with the
learning curve of the new platform.

Oh, and it could probably do with a better keyboard ...

- Nasir

17 Jun 2009 - 12:09pm
Nasir Barday
2006

(Shucks, did that come off mean and snarky? I didn't mean it. Come back.)

17 Jun 2009 - 4:59pm
David Drucker
2008

> (Shucks, did that come off mean and snarky? I didn't mean it. Come
> back.)

It didn't seem mean and snarky to me. I agree 100% with what you said.
I like the fact that you acknowledged the developers, as well as the
platform.

To be fair to the 'Web OS' of Palm, that looks interesting as well,
but we'll just have to see.

I'm also still waiting for a development environment for the iPhone
that amateurs can program; a sort of VB (or closer to Apple's
ancestry, HyperCard) for the iPhone. You'd drag and drop just like the
UI toolkit, but instead of Objective C, a more friendly OOP like
Applescript might be used. Building 'Publish to the iTunes Store' for
free might be nice (although the volume of these things would prohibit
the kind of control that they currently have over the store).

I also agree with the background stuff. When something is not on your
screen, it's just draining the battery (ah, battery technology, if
you'd only catch up to everything else!). I suspect that the launch
time of apps with the iPhone 3GS will be fast enough that having am
app already running of-screen and flipping to it will no longer be
seen as such a significant advantage as it seems now.

17 Jun 2009 - 4:04pm
Jennifer Brook
2008

I worked on one of the applications that launched with the Pre; using
the Pre has scraped most of the luster off the iPhone experience. I
now despise being kicked out of applications when I want to share
content. Palm has launched a product that totally hits Apple in, what
Julie describe as, their Achilles heel.

Nasir, as you probably know, applications within the Pre are
developed using WebOS (read: html), so any developer worth her salt,
should be able to quickly get up to speed to iterate and develop
applications. The Pre is not even comparable to Android in that, like
the iPhone, there are UI standards and elegant built-in transitions.

The multi-tasking/background capabilities of the Pre acknowledge and
reward the kind of tweet-writing, article-sharing, sms-addicted,
multi-address book mobile users we have become. And yes, it's only a
matter of time until they open their platform.

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17 Jun 2009 - 8:13pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

>
> With Smartphones becoming more popular and affordable - what are the
> critical differentiators when selecting between phones?
>
> When products start to assume similar looks, what makes something
> stand out from the crowd?
>
> For example, battery life. Others?
>

You have to look beyond the phone itself. The iPhone is part of a *platform*.
It includes iTunes to manage music, video, apps, and purchases. It includes
the boatloads of third-party developers out there making up brilliant little
add-ons. And it includes all those people who have create iPhone-friendly
stylesheets for their sites, or even just built out web-clip sites.

The selling points of smartphones can be debated back and forth endlessly —
it's these platform aspects that really make the difference.

-r-

17 Jun 2009 - 9:30pm
Jarod Tang
2007

>
> You have to look beyond the phone itself. The iPhone is part of a
> *platform*.
> It includes iTunes to manage music, video, apps, and purchases. It includes
> the boatloads of third-party developers out there making up brilliant
> little
> add-ons. And it includes all those people who have create iPhone-friendly
> stylesheets for their sites, or even just built out web-clip sites.
>
> The selling points of smartphones can be debated back and forth endlessly —
> it's these platform aspects that really make the difference.

Great point! this is the reason some blends into people's everyday life
better than others. And also it addresses one of the current mobile
interaction/design trend.

Cheers,
-- Jarod

--
http://designforuse.blogspot.com/

19 Jun 2009 - 8:14pm
Michel Milano
2008

re:
> I'm also still waiting for a development environment for the
> iPhone that amateurs can program;

have you tried pushing Dashcode aroudn a little bit to see if that
works for you?

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19 Jun 2009 - 9:32pm
DampeS8N
2008

I'm all for some competition for Apple. I think the future of all
personal computing are in something iPhone like. I've already seen
some people stop using their PC in favor of the iPhone.

I haven't used the Pre yet. But from what I hear it can give the
iPhone a run for its money. This will be good for what I hope is the
future. multi-app multi-size interoperable star trek style pads.
Replacing the PC and moving the desktop into a purely
productivity/hobbyist realm.

Those apps will still be made on desktops. But grandma will use her
iPreKindle for all her e-mail and Wrestlemania needs.

What? Grandmas can't watch Wrestlemania?

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19 Jun 2009 - 11:21pm
dszuc
2005

Today we visited a Sprint store and played with the Palm Pre for the
first time.

Apart from making comments on the phone itself (for a later time
perhaps), the first that struck us is that you we were playing with
the phone in the context/environment of a "Sprint store". A very,
very different experience to playing with the iphone in an Apple
store. It all plays a part and forms one's first impression of the
product.

There is something strangely alluring about Apple stores.

rgds,
Dan

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20 Jun 2009 - 8:38am
Jarod Tang
2007

On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 3:32 AM, William Brall <dampee at earthlink.net> wrote:

> I'm all for some competition for Apple. I think the future of all
> personal computing are in something iPhone like. I've already seen
> some people stop using their PC in favor of the iPhone.

I'm not sure japanness will agree with you while they have their very good
handsets. What iPhone really make sense is its strategy of blending to the
life webs, e.g. services, iTurns store. etc, instead of what it looks like.

Cheers,
-- Jarod

--
http://designforuse.blogspot.com/

20 Jun 2009 - 9:23am
DampeS8N
2008

I wasn't talking about what the iPhone looks like. I was talking about the easy in which it does things. It isn't perfect. I've seen a pre now and they are good too. Still not perfect.

I agree with what you said, other than suggesting I didn't say the same thing. :)

If anything. What I said is a more extreme example of what you said. I'm predicting that something that uses the same strategy the iPhone uses. Simple device. Simple basic interface with discoverable or learnable complexities. No obvious file system. A built-in store where you can buy all software upgrades and media. A work-anywhere philosophy, which will eventually be true enough..

I also lumped the Kindle in with these devices. It shares a lot of the same hardware, especially if you avoid the screen. Something that size, but more like an iPhone with the ability to swap apps and run background processes will be what replaces the PC. Mark my words.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jarod Tang
To: William Brall
Cc: discuss at ixda.org
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Palm Pre

On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 3:32 AM, William Brall <dampee at earthlink.net> wrote:

I'm all for some competition for Apple. I think the future of all
personal computing are in something iPhone like. I've already seen
some people stop using their PC in favor of the iPhone.

I'm not sure japanness will agree with you while they have their very good handsets. What iPhone really make sense is its strategy of blending to the life webs, e.g. services, iTurns store. etc, instead of what it looks like.

Cheers,
-- Jarod

--
http://designforuse.blogspot.com/

20 Jun 2009 - 10:56am
Jarod Tang
2007

On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 10:23 PM, William Brall <dampee at earthlink.net>wrote:

> I wasn't talking about what the iPhone looks like. I was talking about
> the easy in which it does things. It isn't perfect. I've seen a pre now and
> they are good too. Still not perfect.
>
> I agree with what you said, other than suggesting I didn't say the same
> thing. :)
>
> If anything. What I said is a more extreme example of what you said. I'm
> predicting that something that uses the same strategy the iPhone uses.
>

If so, i guess we are on the same page. :). and I think Robert expressed it
quite clear, "The iPhone is part of a *platform*. It includes iTunes to
manage music, video, apps, and pu rchases. It includes the boatloads of
third-party developers out there making up brilliant little add-ons. "

> Simple device. Simple basic interface with discoverable or learnable
> complexities. No obvious file system. A built-in store where you can buy all
> software upgrades and media. A work-anywhere philosophy, which will
> eventually be true enough..
>
For this, i think different people will tell different story ( like, it's
quite single hand unfriendly as many people complains), and simple? depends
( different people, different context)!

And iPhone story tells us more about interaction design, like guys said
years ago ( usability ONLY maybe a path to failure,
http://www.adaptivepath.com/blog/2007/07/17/why-usability-is-a-path-to-failure/),
and the guy can raise iPhone as a real example for his argument now.

Cheers,
-- Jarod

--
http://designforuse.blogspot.com/

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