Silverlight pattern library

8 Aug 2008 - 10:52am
6 years ago
3 replies
797 reads
Jay Morgan
2006

This post is to request that M$ make a (public) pattern library for
Silverlight. And, to ask that if someone knows of one they can share it with
me.

The problem so far: I'm researching Silverlight and the substantial part of
it seems to be buried in *applications that require install*. I do not have
admin rights in M$ Vista, so I cannot see the work, thus I cannot evaluate
it, thus I cannot share it, and it is not easy for my team to make the case
for working with it.

I remember years ago when I could simply go to the MSDN section for Common
Controls and share those proto-design patterns. I'm looking for the WPF
version of that. And, it's ok if I have to use a Silverlight plug-in to view
it. It just seems like a significant use case "UC0.2: Users discover
Silverlight by exploring web", which has condition "User does not have - and
will not get - Vista admin rights to support installing Silverlight
applications" needs to be met. This
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb404716(VS.95).aspx<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb404716%28VS.95%29.aspx>just
doesn't really get me where the old Common Controls would.

Maybe someone can point me to an existing one?
Thank you for letting me post this request.

--
Jay A. Morgan

Comments

8 Aug 2008 - 1:23pm
Jay Morgan
2006

re: Public pattern library for Silverlight:
The problem in short: I want to see Silverlight's portfolio. Building a
pattern library is a suggested solution for showcasing Silverlight work. The
specific PL execution means that it's in the parlance of interaction design,
which is a major portion of the Expression target audience.

re: Silverlight plug-in:
Two parts to this problem: 1) Plug-in issues hide SL work in web. 2) SL work
in desktop apps is invisible b/c i can't install and run those apps.
Part one story:
Keyword: "should". Yes, SL should just go, but it does not. I can't install
v2b2 because i don't have admin rights, so i have to wait to get that in
order to view most examples. This is a typical reinforcer of pain w/ MS
products. SL and Expression thus look less attractive. What if I build
something in v2b2 and then v3 makes it obolete/inaccessible? I wouldn't pass
that risk to my clients.
Part two story:
More of a marketing problem than technology. If there's really good SL work
on desktop apps, I'd like to see some of the capabilities. (Of course, not
asking to see proprietary stuff, just what it can do.) The core stands: I
want to see SL's portfolio to see if it's worth using (SL/Expression). If I
can't see it, I can't evaluate that. Or, worse, the evaluation ends with a
bad score - sort of an "uncontested" match.

What makes me think I could see this portfolio? Surface marketing campaign.

Thanks for the reply.
On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 1:40 PM, J. Ambrose Little <ambrogio at gmail.com>wrote:

> Jay,
>
> I might be able to help you out, but it is not clear to me exactly what you
> want. What do you mean by "public pattern library" for Silverlight? The
> rest of your post seemed generally about discovering Silverlight, so I'm not
> sure what exactly you're looking for.
>
> As for requiring installation, what are you seeing that requires
> installation for Silverlight? Once you get the Silverlight plug-in
> installed, Silverlight apps should just "go." It may be that you have the
> public v1 and are looking at Beta 2 samples? In that case, you do need to
> get the Beta 2 installed as it is a brand new beast--1.0 was essentially a
> media player that could be automated via JavaScript. 2.0 has 1.0 + a new
> scaled down .NET CLR and all the goodies that come along with that.
>
> --Ambrose
>

--
Jay A. Morgan

8 Aug 2008 - 1:23pm
Evan K. Stone
2008

> I remember years ago when I could simply go to the MSDN section for
Common
> Controls and share those proto-design patterns. I'm looking for the
WPF
> version of that.

...speaking as a developer (one of the hats I wear), I feel your pain.
Unfortunately, Microsoft has seemed to have stepped aside a bit and let
the third parties come up with the bulk of the controls this time
around. So your best bet may be to check out what Telerik, Infragistics,
Component One, et al., have to offer in the way of controls and use them
as "proto-design patterns" (nice term. me likey.).

I may be doing quite a bit of WPF-based design and development from here
on out, so maybe we can use each other (and anyone else using
Silverlight or WPF who would like to collaborate) as resources for
patterns we've encountered or come up with. It sure would be nice to
have an open wiki or some kind of collaborative repository for this
too...

thanks!

///eks

8 Aug 2008 - 2:46pm
Jay Morgan
2006

I appreciate your judicious if verbose response. Sincerely.
However, I just wanted to see what Silverlight can do and whether it's worth
working in now. And, I wanted to have it done before lunch today. I might
come back to the resources on another Friday when I have time to evaluate
new directions.

Thanks.

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 3:12 PM, J. Ambrose Little <ambrogio at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Jay Morgan <jayamorgan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> re: Public pattern library for Silverlight:
>> The problem in short: I want to see Silverlight's portfolio. Building a
>> pattern library is a suggested solution for showcasing Silverlight work. The
>> specific PL execution means that it's in the parlance of interaction design,
>> which is a major portion of the Expression target audience.
>>
>
> I think recent discussions here have shown that there is confusion even
> within the IxD community about the term "pattern"; hence the desire for
> clarification--safer not to assume we're on the same page there. I still
> don't see the value in a Silverlight-specific pattern library--Silverlight
> would be just one technology in which UI patterns could/would be
> implemented. Unless you mean, e.g., a control library?
>
> If you're looking for the actual widgets that are implementations, then I
> suggest searching on "Silverlight controls." There are a number (~30)
> of the most common controls (textbox, itemscontrol, datepicker, grid, etc.)
> available in the beta right now. Microsoft has said they plan on ultimately
> shipping over 100 controls out of band that folks can use in their apps.
>
> I can't speak to whether or not MS has targeted IxD's specifically with
> Blend. Maybe they meant to, but I tend to agree with Dave Malouf's
> assessment on that point.
>
> Anyhoo, here are some resources for ya:
> http://silverlight.net/ - The Official Silverlight Community Site
>
> http://www.silverlightshow.net/ - Quality Independent Silverlight
> Community Site
> http://silverlight.net/Showcase/ - Showcasing SL work on the Web
>
> http://www.wynapse.com/ - Silverlight Articles, Blogs, Examples, and More
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb188743.aspx - MSDN Library for
> Silverlight
>
>
> http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2008/06/06/silverlight-2-beta2-released.aspx -
> Scott Guthrie is a VP over this stuff, and this is a good (albeit
> dev-oriented) intro to SL B2.
>
> [Plug] I am co-authoring a Silverlight 2 book<http://www.amazon.com/Silverlight-Programmers-Reference-Ambrose-Little/dp/0470385405/>,
> so that's another resource, and we have an early access wiki<http://silverlight2.wrox.com/wiki>for anyone interested in getting at it before it is published. Of course,
> the target audience for that is definitely devs.
>
>
>
>> re: Silverlight plug-in:
>> Two parts to this problem: 1) Plug-in issues hide SL work in web.
>>
>
> Eh? Flash? Shockwave? Applets? Needing a plugin to further enrich the Web
> experience is not new, nor are issues with plug-ins (like installs and
> upgrades) specific to SL.
>
>
>> 2) SL work in desktop apps is invisible b/c i can't install and run those
>> apps.
>>
>
> Right now, if I'm understanding your issue correctly, there is no offline
> activation story for SL. There is no AIR-like equivalent to let SL run
> outside of the browser (or a browser control inside some other app).
>
>
>>
>> Part one story:
>> Keyword: "should". Yes, SL should just go, but it does not.
>>
>
> It does if you have it installed. Same story for Flash and any other
> plug-in based tech.
>
>
>> I can't install v2b2 because i don't have admin rights, so i have to wait
>> to get that in order to view most examples.
>>
>
> Last time I checked, you need admin to install Flash and Flex/AIR, too,
> no?
>
>
>> This is a typical reinforcer of pain w/ MS products.
>>
>
> Seriously, this is not an MS-only issue. I think there is a
> double-standard being applied here.
>
>
>> SL and Expression thus look less attractive. What if I build something in
>> v2b2 and then v3 makes it obolete/inaccessible? I wouldn't pass that risk to
>> my clients.
>>
>
> Think of it this way:
>
> Silverlight 1.0 = roughly equivalent to plain Flash in terms of target
> functionality
> Silverlight 2+ = more like Flex--there's a lot more to it, so it requires a
> bigger/different runtime
>
> In other words, the difference between v2 and v3 will not be equivalent to
> that between v1 and v2. What that means in terms of installation & updates,
> I can't say for sure, but I do know that some level of updates will be
> opt-in automatic for clients once v2 is released.
>
>
>> Part two story:
>> More of a marketing problem than technology. If there's really good SL
>> work on desktop apps, I'd like to see some of the capabilities. (Of course,
>> not asking to see proprietary stuff, just what it can do.) The core stands:
>> I want to see SL's portfolio to see if it's worth using (SL/Expression). If
>> I can't see it, I can't evaluate that. Or, worse, the evaluation ends with a
>> bad score - sort of an "uncontested" match.
>>
>
> I'd check out the resources above. SL 2 is still in Beta, so if your
> company has a locked down environment, I wouldn't expect them to let you
> install it (or install it for you). That said, if you need to evaluate it,
> maybe they should. There are also videos online as well, but it's not the
> same as evaluating it directly. Maybe you can spin up a VM where you have
> admin rights to play around with this pre-release stuff.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> --Ambrose
>

--
Jay A. Morgan

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