Cuil

28 Jul 2008 - 3:43am
6 years ago
44 replies
1258 reads
SemanticWill
2007

A new clustering search engine? Wall Street Journal article here: *
http://tinyurl.com/5b9e9q

http://www.cuil.com/ launches today.

It was a little quirky this morning. Even though it comes from three
architects at google, how is it different?
"*Popularity is useful, but has dominated search results so heavily that it
gets harder and harder to find the page you want, especially if your search
is a complex one. Cuil respects popular pages and recognizes that for many
simple searches, popularity is an easy answer to your question. But for a
deeper search, establishing relevancy is more than a numbers game. Cuil
prefers to find all the pages with your keyword or phrase and then analyze
the rest of the content on those pages. During this analysis we discover
that your keywords have different meanings in different contexts. Once we've
established the context of the pages, we're in a much better position to
help you in your search."

--
~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | User Experience Architect
tel +1.617.281.1281 | will at semanticfoundry.com
twitter: https://twitter.com/semanticwill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Comments

28 Jul 2008 - 4:33am
Kontra
2007

> http://www.cuil.com/ launches today.

And will fail soon.

Example:
Do a search for, uhm, "design".
Check the very first entry:
<http://www.wpdfd.com/>
Notice the focus of that most popular/authoritative/relevant entry.
Now, click on the next tab "Web Design".
Wonder where the first entry (the top choice in "All results" and with a
pure web focus) went.
Puzzle over the grouping algo.
Then ponder on how long it would take Google to do the same IF they thought
they needed it.
Scratch head and try to pronounce the name of the service.
Cool, innit? ;-)

--
Kontra
http://counternotions.com

28 Jul 2008 - 7:41am
SemanticWill
2007

Yes. I think your right. It's pronounced Coo-el

will evans
user experience architect
wkevans4 at gmail.com
617.281.1281

On Jul 28, 2008, at 5:33 AM, Kontra <counternotions at gmail.com> wrote:

>> http://www.cuil.com/ launches today.
>
>
> And will fail soon.
>
> Example:
> Do a search for, uhm, "design".
> Check the very first entry:
> <http://www.wpdfd.com/>
> Notice the focus of that most popular/authoritative/relevant entry.
> Now, click on the next tab "Web Design".
> Wonder where the first entry (the top choice in "All results" and
> with a
> pure web focus) went.
> Puzzle over the grouping algo.
> Then ponder on how long it would take Google to do the same IF they
> thought
> they needed it.
> Scratch head and try to pronounce the name of the service.
> Cool, innit? ;-)
>
> --
> Kontra
> http://counternotions.com
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
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28 Jul 2008 - 6:57am
Jeroen Elstgeest
2008

I tried Cuil for a search on *"nailed by nikita" + grindhouse* (*)

I didn't get a result until there was nothing more left than
*grindhouse*which is a little bit disappointing.

I think the concept's ok and I like the interface, which is very minimal,
but the results and the way to search is not quite there yet ;-)

* A colleague of mine mentioned that a friend of his made the fake movie
trailer that won Quentin Tarantino's Grindhouse DVD contest)

28 Jul 2008 - 7:29am
Mario Bourque
2008

Was not able to find mariobourque.com when searching for "Mario Bourque"

I like the concept though.
--
Mario Bourque
Web: www.mariobourque.com
Email: mario at mariobourque.com
Twitter: www.twitter.com/mariobourque

28 Jul 2008 - 10:37am
Andy Edmonds
2004

The UI design is interesting as well. Multi-column search layouts have
typically not fared very well at scale, though I personally like them
just fine.

It seems that avoiding a costly scroll for examining more results would
be a win, but people are quite use to a single column and it makes the
ad placement tricker.

Will Evans wrote:
> A new clustering search engine? Wall Street Journal article here: *
> http://tinyurl.com/5b9e9q
>
> http://www.cuil.com/ launches today.
>
>

28 Jul 2008 - 12:17pm
Andri SigurĂ°sson
2008

Andy, I thought it was already a known fact that long pages do not cost anything or hurt usability in any way. Most users scroll to the bottom of a page at least once and thus are familiar with its contents.

I can't think of a reason that would make this multi-columns setup a better format then a single column. Will it not hurt scanability?

28 Jul 2008 - 12:20pm
Damon Dimmick
2008

I actually find the horizontal / multi column results search a lot more
natural in this kind of setting. usually the summary section isn't
necessary for most searches, so changing the format to a more blocky,
horizontal grouping might actually be beneficial. Since users have to
read the results in any case, their eyes are already moving
horizontally, so the idea of putting the top results in a
shoulder-to-shoulder seems like a natural. There are bad ways of doing
that, of course.

But from a purely visual (non interaction) design point of view, the
entry page seems somehow.... wrong. Maybe that's just because current
vogue and standard is an open, airy, white-space style search page.

Right now the major problem seems to be server overload so it is tough
to see how responsive the site will be.

Andy Edmonds wrote:
> The UI design is interesting as well. Multi-column search layouts
> have typically not fared very well at scale, though I personally like
> them just fine.
>
> It seems that avoiding a costly scroll for examining more results
> would be a win, but people are quite use to a single column and it
> makes the ad placement tricker.
>
> Will Evans wrote:
>> A new clustering search engine? Wall Street Journal article here: *
>> http://tinyurl.com/5b9e9q
>>
>> http://www.cuil.com/ launches today.
>>
>>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help

28 Jul 2008 - 11:39am
Anonymous

Andy Edmonds wrote:
> The UI design is interesting as well. Multi-column search layouts
> have typically not fared very well at scale, though I personally like
> them just fine.
I hated that bit. I didn't know where to look, which column would
contain the most important search results? Just made my eyes jump around
the page and not land anywhere. Add to that the tiny font on the site
and its a sure fire "only with style switched off" app but I'm not sure
that the functionality is worth moving from Google.

Lucy

28 Jul 2008 - 12:55pm
Jeffrey D. Gimzek
2007

well, as people are want to do, i typed "jdgimzek" into the engine,
and it did not return any results on jdgimzek.com

fail.

jd

On Jul 28, 2008, at 10:20 AM, Damon Dimmick wrote:

> I actually find the horizontal / multi column results search a lot
> more natural in this kind of setting. usually the summary section
> isn't necessary for most searches, so changing the format to a more
> blocky, horizontal grouping might actually be beneficial. Since
> users have to read the results in any case, their eyes are already
> moving horizontally, so the idea of putting the top results in a
> shoulder-to-shoulder seems like a natural. There are bad ways of
> doing that, of course.
>
> But from a purely visual (non interaction) design point of view, the
> entry page seems somehow.... wrong. Maybe that's just because
> current vogue and standard is an open, airy, white-space style
> search page.
>
> Right now the major problem seems to be server overload so it is
> tough to see how responsive the site will be.
>
>
> Andy Edmonds wrote:
>> The UI design is interesting as well. Multi-column search layouts
>> have typically not fared very well at scale, though I personally
>> like them just fine.
>>
>> It seems that avoiding a costly scroll for examining more results
>> would be a win, but people are quite use to a single column and it
>> makes the ad placement tricker.
>>
>> Will Evans wrote:
>>> A new clustering search engine? Wall Street Journal article here: *
>>> http://tinyurl.com/5b9e9q
>>>
>>> http://www.cuil.com/ launches today.

--

Jeff Gimzek | Senior User Experience Designer

jeffreygimzek at springstudio.com | www.springstudio.com

28 Jul 2008 - 1:41pm
Patrick Barrett
2006

I don't like this grid layout, I can't tell which result is more relevant...the last item in column 1 or the first item in column 2. Lists are unambiguous, girds not so much.

Patrick V. Barrett

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Damon Dimmick
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 12:21 PM
Cc: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Cuil

I actually find the horizontal / multi column results search a lot more
natural in this kind of setting. usually the summary section isn't
necessary for most searches, so changing the format to a more blocky,
horizontal grouping might actually be beneficial. Since users have to
read the results in any case, their eyes are already moving
horizontally, so the idea of putting the top results in a
shoulder-to-shoulder seems like a natural. There are bad ways of doing
that, of course.

But from a purely visual (non interaction) design point of view, the
entry page seems somehow.... wrong. Maybe that's just because current
vogue and standard is an open, airy, white-space style search page.

Right now the major problem seems to be server overload so it is tough
to see how responsive the site will be.

Andy Edmonds wrote:
> The UI design is interesting as well. Multi-column search layouts
> have typically not fared very well at scale, though I personally like
> them just fine.
>
> It seems that avoiding a costly scroll for examining more results
> would be a win, but people are quite use to a single column and it
> makes the ad placement tricker.
>
> Will Evans wrote:
>> A new clustering search engine? Wall Street Journal article here: *
>> http://tinyurl.com/5b9e9q
>>
>> http://www.cuil.com/ launches today.
>>
>>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help

________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help

28 Jul 2008 - 1:46pm
Dave Malouf
2005

Not that you can check now (they seem to be down), but their image
matching software is not all that accurate. There are two David
Malouf's of interest in the search results (I win on the 1st page on
Cuil--Yeah!), but the picture is never of me or even associated with
me. Once they even had Jared Spool's picture. But most times it is
some other David Malouf (usually the more famous Australian
novelist). What really sucks is that none of my categories show up on
the right even though I'm more of the articles listed on the page.

They have a lot of work to do. ;-)

-- dave

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630

28 Jul 2008 - 1:56pm
Jackie O\'Hare
2008

I love that the natural first test of a search engine is "can you show
me me?"

On a separate note, someone mentioned earlier that search engines are a
lot about branding, which I am certainly inclined to agree with. It's
going to be hard for any new players in the search engine market to
overcome the fact that Google is a verb.

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
dave malouf
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:46 AM
To: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Cuil

Not that you can check now (they seem to be down), but their image
matching software is not all that accurate. There are two David Malouf's
of interest in the search results (I win on the 1st page on
Cuil--Yeah!), but the picture is never of me or even associated with me.
Once they even had Jared Spool's picture. But most times it is some
other David Malouf (usually the more famous Australian novelist). What
really sucks is that none of my categories show up on the right even
though I'm more of the articles listed on the page.

They have a lot of work to do. ;-)

-- dave

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630

________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org Unsubscribe
................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines
............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help ..................
http://www.ixda.org/help

28 Jul 2008 - 2:19pm
SemanticWill
2007

" It's going to be hard for any new players in the search engine market to
overcome the fact that Google is a verb."

Even if Google is, in fact, the McDonald's of search -- until a significant
number of people realize that corn fed beef will make them fat and die, they
won't switch. Billions and Billions served up baby.

So anyone on this list work on the IxD, IA, or UI for this new entry into
the search field? God, if mean, Google, needs some competition.

For once in perhaps the last year - I am actually withholding judgement.

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Jackie O'Hare <Jackie at ttspersonnel.com>wrote:

> I love that the natural first test of a search engine is "can you show
> me me?"
>
> On a separate note, someone mentioned earlier that search engines are a
> lot about branding, which I am certainly inclined to agree with. It's
> going to be hard for any new players in the search engine market to
> overcome the fact that Google is a verb.
>
>

28 Jul 2008 - 2:25pm
Andy Edmonds
2004

So far about even mix so far between positive and negative...

I once considered tilting the grid a little to the right, so that either
up/down or left/right strategies would get the intended rank ordering.
For Cuil, the inclusion of graphics from the page helps make the column
layout more scannable, supporting backtracking by grafting unique
visuals onto an unfamiliar layout.

Another columnar search layout that's pretty slick is
http://alpha.managedq.com

Patrick Barrett wrote:
> I don't like this grid layout, I can't tell which result is more relevant...the last item in column 1 or the first item in column 2. Lists are unambiguous, girds not so much.
>
> Patrick V. Barrett
>
>

28 Jul 2008 - 2:50pm
Jeffrey D. Gimzek
2007

It is the one subject about which all persons have expert knowledge.

On Jul 28, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Jackie O'Hare wrote:

> I love that the natural first test of a search engine is "can you show
> me me?"
>
> On a separate note, someone mentioned earlier that search engines
> are a
> lot about branding, which I am certainly inclined to agree with. It's
> going to be hard for any new players in the search engine market to
> overcome the fact that Google is a verb.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
> dave malouf
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:46 AM
> To: discuss at ixda.org
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Cuil
>
> Not that you can check now (they seem to be down), but their image
> matching software is not all that accurate. There are two David
> Malouf's
> of interest in the search results (I win on the 1st page on
> Cuil--Yeah!), but the picture is never of me or even associated with
> me.
> Once they even had Jared Spool's picture. But most times it is some
> other David Malouf (usually the more famous Australian novelist). What
> really sucks is that none of my categories show up on the right even
> though I'm more of the articles listed on the page.
>
> They have a lot of work to do. ;-)
>
> -- dave

--

Jeff Gimzek | Senior User Experience Designer

jeffreygimzek at springstudio.com | www.springstudio.com

28 Jul 2008 - 3:08pm
usabilitymedic
2008

There are bugs.

1) This morning I searched on a term (usability) and then switched my
preferences to allow for questionable content (by default this is
protected) and the same search returned zero results.

2) Recently I did a search which yielded only 5 results on screen,
confirmed by the fact that there was only 1 page of search results,
further confirmed b the fact that the forward and next arrows were
disabled, yet....
the upper right area said, "88 results for [my search term]"

3) Response time for additional results pages was extremely slow.
Tried again just now and actually got a message: "No results
because of high load. Due to excessive load, our servers didn't
return results. Please try your search again."

Perhaps Cuil was released too early?

Regarding the design, I have mixed feelings thus far. I like that
there's more info revealed for each result and that there's some
small graphical element in the results. However, the layout is less
"efficient" to browse.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630

28 Jul 2008 - 4:15pm
Christine Boese
2006

My thought was that the launch generated a lot of interest, so they may have
underestimated the load of the "new site" curiosity traffic. Denial of
service-type, just a little overloaded as people check out the potential
David to Giant Google.

Chris

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Maureen <medic at usabilitymedic.com> wrote:

> There are bugs.
>
> 1) This morning I searched on a term (usability) and then switched my
> preferences to allow for questionable content (by default this is
> protected) and the same search returned zero results.
>
> 2) Recently I did a search which yielded only 5 results on screen,
> confirmed by the fact that there was only 1 page of search results,
> further confirmed b the fact that the forward and next arrows were
> disabled, yet....
> the upper right area said, "88 results for [my search term]"
>
> 3) Response time for additional results pages was extremely slow.
> Tried again just now and actually got a message: "No results
> because of high load. Due to excessive load, our servers didn't
> return results. Please try your search again."
>
> Perhaps Cuil was released too early?
>
> Regarding the design, I have mixed feelings thus far. I like that
> there's more info revealed for each result and that there's some
> small graphical element in the results. However, the layout is less
> "efficient" to browse.
>
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Posted from the new ixda.org
> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

28 Jul 2008 - 12:44pm
jaketrimble
2008

Needs a lot of work (image display prefs, spell check, column prefs,
etc). Might work though. Site is running slow and quirky.

I agree with Andri that scan ability might be an issue when trying to
reach users already accustomed to the single column display. Again,
easy fix with added preferences.

Andy, "it makes the ad placement tricker." Not necessarily. For
instance, preferential websites would now be somewhat masked to the
searcher, thus resulting in more clicks. Where Google exuberantly
exclaims a preferential website with different colors and directly
above the search results.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630

28 Jul 2008 - 1:59pm
Hal Gill
2007

YEp, they are down...

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:46:20, dave malouf <dave.ixd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Not that you can check now (they seem to be down), but their image
> matching software is not all that accurate. There are two David
> Malouf's of interest in the search results (I win on the 1st page on
> Cuil--Yeah!), but the picture is never of me or even associated with
> me. Once they even had Jared Spool's picture. But most times it is
> some other David Malouf (usually the more famous Australian
> novelist). What really sucks is that none of my categories show up on
> the right even though I'm more of the articles listed on the page.
>
> They have a lot of work to do. ;-)
>
> -- dave
>
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Posted from the new ixda.org
> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

28 Jul 2008 - 12:48pm
Damon Dimmick
2008

I don't know, Lucy. It's hard to know if the multi-column would be
better or worse if we were used to it.

Maybe we've all been trained to expect the row-by-row format since
that's been the default for 10 years, but if this concept were actually
implemented well, it might prove beneficial. Wonder if the luminaries
have done research on this.

PS: Have you noticed that the image/results pairing is slightly random?
Like they just grab any old image from the result site and go with it. I
guess the algorithm needs a tiny bit of work.

-Damon

Misenreseau wrote:
> Andy Edmonds wrote:
>
>> The UI design is interesting as well. Multi-column search layouts
>> have typically not fared very well at scale, though I personally like
>> them just fine.
>>
> I hated that bit. I didn't know where to look, which column would
> contain the most important search results? Just made my eyes jump around
> the page and not land anywhere. Add to that the tiny font on the site
> and its a sure fire "only with style switched off" app but I'm not sure
> that the functionality is worth moving from Google.
>
> Lucy
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

28 Jul 2008 - 12:59pm
Charusmitha Ram
2008

Just looking at it from the interface, Google's format of displaying results
lends itself to rapid scanning before choosing to click anything. Also, the
way google extracts a small amount of text from each web page and highlights
some key things makes it much easier to make a decision on which link to
click. The results displayed in cuil seems like a whole lot of digest....too
much text. Nobody would want to invest so much of time reading all that
text. A lot of information is hidden under tabs or mouseover categories
which again doesn't allow you to easily scan content.
--
----------------------------------------------------------
Smitha Ram
Senior Interaction Designer
Thomson Reuters | www.thomsonreuters.com
----------------------------------------------------------

28 Jul 2008 - 6:00pm
Weixi Yen
2007

they are trying to be too cute with the interface.

29 Jul 2008 - 12:34am
Kontra
2007

> I think the concept's ok and I like the interface, which is very minimal,
> but the results and the way to search is not quite there yet ;-)
>

You're more than charitable. :-)

When you aim to topple the planet's most efficient money making apparatus
disguised as a search engine (which Cuil unfortunately positioned themselves
as, in hopes of generating buzz), the simple logic says you must do what
Google does, do it better and then offer stuff Google does not and, more
importantly, cannot. IOW, if Google can look at what you do and spend a few
months to emulate it, plus add their insurmountable advantages in scale and
distribution, you're toast. So the concept is not OK, if you're not running
an experimental charity organization.

As to results, things get weirder. I've read that the reason why people get
different results from Cuil for the same search terms executed at different
times is that their architecture is constructed on knowkledge domains. For
instance, there is a server just for, say, astrology, where all appropriate
search queries go to be processed. But when that server is down, as was the
case for many such servers on their launch day, all queries for astrology go
to the general server pool which, apparently, doesn't have the same chops to
process such requests. So you get inconsistent, unrefined returns
contaminating the top results.

For some reason, notions such as massively parallel processing, sharding,
shared-nothing architectures, etc., escaped the attention of cool folks at
Cuil.

Fail, written all over.

--
Kontra
http://counternotions.com

29 Jul 2008 - 2:28pm
Andrei Herasimchuk
2004

On Jul 28, 2008, at 2:33 AM, Kontra wrote:

>> http://www.cuil.com/ launches today.
>
> And will fail soon.

This is the kind of feedback that kills a lot of the innovation in our
industry as a process or means to approach design. And designers in
this industry wonder why executives or product managers can't see
beyond the surface level when critiquing what we show them when our
own basically behave in the same "if it's not 1,000% up to my
expectations then it's worthless" manner.

Is it perfect? No. They just launched.

Do they have a lot of work to do? Of course.

Are there interface issues? Surely. Plenty of them actually.

Will they succeed as a business? Maybe, who knows.

Do any of you remember using Google back in the day for the first
time? I remember explicitly clicking the I'm Feeling Lucky button and
thinking I got back the most idiotic search result for what I typed
in. In fact, the I'm Feeling Lucky button was the "cool thing" they
were pushing back then that was supposed to Change Everything(tm).
Does anyone use that feature even though it's still on the main page?
Not that I know.

Honestly... Kontra (whoever you are) -- and a lot of others doing
largely negative gut check responses on this new search engine -- if
this is your approach to providing feedback as a designer to
potentially other designers looking at this new service to see what it
has to offer, then the only failure is on the part of us as a design
community. I'm as guilty as anyone in this respect at times, but this
thread really shows why we have such a hard time pressing for new
ideas. When presented with one, it looks like a big pile on from the
very people who should know better.

Will the product succeed or fail? I'm not sure I care so much as I
like a lot of thinking going on in the product and find it interesting
to take apart to see what works and what doesn't.

--
Andrei Herasimchuk

Principal, Involution Studios
innovating the digital world

e. andrei at involutionstudios.com
c. +1 408 306 6422

29 Jul 2008 - 9:47pm
Sharon Greenfield5
2008

I used google in 1997 and thought it was fabulous.

I used cuil yesterday and thought it was ridiculous.

>
> Do any of you remember using Google back in the day for the first
> time? I remember explicitly clicking the I'm Feeling Lucky button
> and thinking I got back the most idiotic search result for what I
> typed in. In fact, the I'm Feeling Lucky button was the "cool thing"
> they were pushing back then that was supposed to Change
> Everything(tm). Does anyone use that feature even though it's still
> on the main page? Not that I know.

30 Jul 2008 - 7:49am
.pauric
2006

Andrei: "This is the kind of feedback that kills a lot of the
innovation in our industry as a process or means to approach
design."

Hi Andrei, could you elaborate a little further on how negative
feedback can kill 'innovation'. I see that as a very simplistic
understanding of what motivates people driven by ideas they believe
in.

Feedback is feedback and if you put your ideas out there, especially
in the way the cuil guys did, you had better be able to roll with the
punches.

Andrei:"I like a lot of thinking going on in the product and find it
interesting to take apart to see what works and what doesn't."

so lets hear it already!

/pauric

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630

30 Jul 2008 - 10:16am
jo frudd
2008

What about http://clusty.com/ a great clustering search engine, with
a much nicer UI.

I first used it in 2005 so its been around for a while and I tend to
go there when I am unable to find what I want using Google.

Why is cuil better then clusty? Perhaps as Cuil claims, it's
because it covers three times as many Web pages as Google and I'm
guessing this is probably more than Clusty.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630

30 Jul 2008 - 10:59am
Weixi Yen
2007

> This is the kind of feedback that kills a lot of the innovation in our
> industry as a process or means to approach design.

Innovation might not be the correct word here. There is plenty of
innovation, like ASK. Cuil is trying too hard to be different with their
UI.

30 Jul 2008 - 6:22pm
.pauric
2006

Andrei, apologies for continuing to critique your definition of
Innovation, but just to labour the point... When someone can churn
out a copy of an 'innovative' search engine (a mashup to be exact)
in less than 24 hours I feel its safe to say you're not setting the
'innovation' bar high enough

Introducing Yuil, better results using 'just enough pages' (o;
http://sampullara.appspot.com/yuil/

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630

30 Jul 2008 - 6:44pm
Scott McDaniel
2007

Oh, this should be fun.

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 7:22 PM, pauric <radiorental at gmail.com> wrote:
> Andrei,

--
The lesson here is that we cannot remove artificial dependencies, but
we can reduce them. - Hao He

30 Jul 2008 - 8:47pm
Andrei Herasimchuk
2004

On Jul 30, 2008, at 4:22 PM, pauric wrote:

> Andrei, apologies for continuing to critique your definition of
> Innovation, but just to labour the point...

I think you missed my point entirely. Please re-read what I wrote.

--
Andrei Herasimchuk

Principal, Involution Studios
innovating the digital world

e. andrei at involutionstudios.com
c. +1 408 306 6422

31 Jul 2008 - 6:52am
.pauric
2006

yup, re-read your post Andrei, still think you've got an odd handle
on what's Innovative and what drives innovators.

Either way, from an product design & delivery perspective it would
seem that Cuil grossly failed some basic principles on shipping a
product that might have any chance of taking market share from the
big three.

With 'Time to market' a non issue they should have focused on
Quality & Features. It looks like they picked the wrong two, see;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pauric/2718849787/

regards /pauric

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630

31 Jul 2008 - 2:02am
Gregor Kiddie
2008

Given the amount of traffic, thinking, and writing time this app has
consumed, especially in the places that they were aiming for (the folks
on this list for example), I think they've met everything they set out
to do.
Though the cynic in me says those aims were mainly the next rounds of
investment.

Gk.

Gregor Kiddie
Senior Developer
INPS

Tel: 01382 564343

Registered address: The Bread Factory, 1a Broughton Street, London SW8
3QJ

Registered Number: 1788577

Registered in the UK

Visit our Internet Web site at www.inps.co.uk

The information in this internet email is confidential and is intended
solely for the addressee. Access, copying or re-use of information in it
by anyone else is not authorised. Any views or opinions presented are
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of
INPS or any of its affiliates. If you are not the intended recipient
please contact is.helpdesk at inps.co.uk

31 Jul 2008 - 11:52am
Andrei Herasimchuk
2004

On Jul 31, 2008, at 4:52 AM, pauric wrote:

> yup, re-read your post Andrei, still think you've got an odd handle
> on what's Innovative and what drives innovators.

You're getting stuck on thinking I was saying that Cuil is innovative.
I said no such thing.

Again, you missed the point of what I wrote.

--
Andrei Herasimchuk

Principal, Involution Studios
innovating the digital world

e. andrei at involutionstudios.com
c. +1 408 306 6422

31 Jul 2008 - 1:38pm
.pauric
2006

Andrei, mate...
" http://www.cuil.com/ launches today. And will fail soon....

This is the kind of feedback that kills a lot of the innovation in
our industry as a process or means to approach design."

Can I recommend: http://tinyurl.com/6bqbaq

That aside, I think its bad form to criticize someone else for being
critical and sign off with "I like a lot of thinking going on in the
product and find it interesting to take apart to see what works and
what doesn't. " without following through on that...

I'm genuinely interested in hearing what you like/dislike about
cuil, so lets hear what you think makes this product innovative.

-thanks /pauric

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630

31 Jul 2008 - 2:59pm
.pauric
2006

Andrei, apologies, the link to the guide to better writing was a
mistake and does not befit the conversation on the list.

You have my sincerest apologies as well as the members of this list
for wasting their time with off-topic, puerile, content.

regards /pauric

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630

31 Jul 2008 - 3:09pm
SemanticWill
2007

Just when I thought things were getting good.

Here you go old boy *http://tinyurl.com/5cdyqr*

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 3:59 PM, pauric <radiorental at gmail.com> wrote:

> Andrei, apologies, the link to the guide to better writing was a
> mistake and does not befit the conversation on the list.
>
> You have my sincerest apologies as well as the members of this list
> for wasting their time with off-topic, puerile, content.
>
> regards /pauric
>
>
>
--
~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | User Experience Architect
tel +1.617.281.1281 | will at semanticfoundry.com
twitter: https://twitter.com/semanticwill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

31 Jul 2008 - 3:21pm
Andrei Herasimchuk
2004

On Jul 31, 2008, at 11:38 AM, pauric wrote:

> I'm genuinely interested in hearing what you like/dislike about
> cuil, so lets hear what you think makes this product innovative.

Again... I *NEVER* said that Cuil was innovative. I find the product
interesting, and I'll let you know why below.

I was making a broader point that the manner in which people discuss
new products or ideas in such a strongly negative fashion is the way
in which innovative thinking gets crushed. (Innovative thinking is
often new or different approaches to ideas or problems that are well
established.) It's understandable that people who aren't designers
behave this way, but when we do it, we're only making it acceptable
that others do it to us.

Am I implying that Cuil is innovative then? I guess you can think I'm
implying that, but that's not what I said. Cuil obviously has a lot of
issues, but aspects of it are interesting and shouldn't be discounted
simply because people don't think it's search results rate compared to
Google or Yahoo.

Now, why do I find the product interesting? Here was my first
experience of using it.

I typed in a few searches just to see what came up, then I did the
usual typing in my own name because I'm vain. Here's those search
results on Cuil, Google and Yahoo.

http://www.cuil.com/search?q=andrei+herasimchuk
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=andrei+herasimchuk&btnG=Google+Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkwMXGZJI_lkBqC2l87UF?p=andrei+herasimchuk&ei=UTF-8&iscqry=&fr=sfp

For one, I like how their URL is simpler. Just noting it.

For the results, Cuil did something the others don't do by default.
This was the first time I've experienced searching on my name and
seeing categories that actually relate to me. I find that interesting
and if it evolves, it might become something that is pretty useful.
Yahoo does this to a degree as well, but they've hidden their "explore
concepts" in the drawer under the search field, and Yahoo's categories
weren't as accurate as I thought Cuil's were. Google? I don't see that
type of thing anywhere in the default interface.

Second, when I decide to exploring links in those categories, it auto
appends that category to my name. Sure, there are ways of doing this
in both other searches, but Cuil put it out in the open to make it
easy to see. Are the results that come back good? Not yet it appears,
but I'm not going to discount the *IDEA* because the engine isn't
there yet. (And that was my initial point.) Cuil's default layout and
approach makes tunneling on a search much more visible and easy to
follow compared to Google and Yahoo.

Try these:

http://www.cuil.com/search?q=interface%20design&sl=long
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=interface+design&btnG=Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkmArGZJIDpcAe.ZXNyoA?p=interface+design&y=Search&fr=sfp&ei=UTF-8

Again, if you expand Yahoo's Explore drawer, you get related things
like "user interface design," "web interface design"... but in Cuil,
if you choose "more" in the Categories panel, you get something like
"Interface Designers" and see Brenda Laurel, Kai Krause and Jesse
James Garret. I think that's pretty interesting. And I now have to
figure out how to get my name in that list.

Third, a minor point, but I love that they are taking the fixed header
and fixed footer approach. This is incredibly easy for anyone to do,
but they decided to do it. I love being able to navigate the results
or change my criteria without having to constantly scroll to the top
or bottom of every page. And having done a fixed footer on my blog
forever and year ago, I'm glad to see a lot of people starting to
finally take advantage of this simple CSS feature like this.

Fourth, I like the multi-column layout. I don't like the heavy black
type for the content summary as there's not enough contrast with the
search result title, but I like someone trying to break the mold and
do something like this. On my search results page, I can see 12 search
results simultaneously at my screen res. On Google and Yahoo, I can
only see 8. With more typography tweaking, I think the multi-column
layout will begin to prove more useful is seeing more data to decide
from.

There's a lot more I like, but I have to get back to work.

Does Cuil have a lot of work to do? Yes. But I'm glad to see someone
trying to break the mold of textual list-result based search that
Google and Yahoo have pretty much beaten to death.

--
Andrei Herasimchuk

Principal, Involution Studios
innovating the digital world

e. andrei at involutionstudios.com
c. +1 408 306 6422

31 Jul 2008 - 3:38pm
SemanticWill
2007

A cursory and subjective review of the top results for Andrei indicated - to
me at least - that cuil's results were more semantically relevant and
contextually vectored than either google or yahoo. What first peeked my
interest was/is their clustering and semantic relevance algorithms and how
they may end up visually displaying these in meaningful ways.

Just as in music, I find American Idol (a popularity contest) vulgar, I find
Google's popularity rankings crass and have been looking for something a
little more - need I say it - sophisticated. As I said before - Burger King
and Google may serve billions, but it's still junk food.

But - I am still withholding judgment for at least a few weeks to see how
things iron out.

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk <
aherasimchuk at involutionstudios.com> wrote:

> On Jul 31, 2008, at 11:38 AM, pauric wrote:
>
> Now, why do I find the product interesting? Here was my first experience of
> using it.
>
> I typed in a few searches just to see what came up, then I did the usual
> typing in my own name because I'm vain. Here's those search results on Cuil,
> Google and Yahoo.
>
> http://www.cuil.com/search?q=andrei+herasimchuk
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=andrei+herasimchuk&btnG=Google+Search
>
> http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkwMXGZJI_lkBqC2l87UF?p=andrei+herasimchuk&ei=UTF-8&iscqry=&fr=sfp
>
> For one, I like how their URL is simpler. Just noting it.
>
>

1 Aug 2008 - 10:39am
Shali Nguyen
2008

Although I like the design... I mean, it's pretty and all. Google
does the whole "less is more" sort of deal and that tends to win
out. I think in this day and age, it is hard to get people to jump
on a new search engine just because people have adapted to what they
are used to... google or yahoo. Mostly google! Plus it is a little
confusing to say "cuil it!"

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31630

2 Aug 2008 - 8:27am
stauciuc
2006

Maybe you weren't indexed yet ;)

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Mario Bourque <lists at mariobourque.com>wrote:

> Was not able to find mariobourque.com when searching for "Mario Bourque"
>
> I like the concept though.
> --
> Mario Bourque
> Web: www.mariobourque.com
> Email: mario at mariobourque.com
> Twitter: www.twitter.com/mariobourque
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
Sergiu Sebastian Tauciuc
http://www.sergiutauciuc.ro/en/

3 Aug 2008 - 1:52pm
Jarod Tang
2007

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Shali Nguyen <shalinguyen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Although I like the design... I mean, it's pretty and all. Google
> does the whole "less is more" sort of deal and that tends to win
> out.
Agree.

> I think in this day and age, it is hard to get people to jump
> on a new search engine just because people have adapted to what they
> are used to... google or yahoo. Mostly google! Plus it is a little
> confusing to say "cuil it!"
It's not necessarily to think like this way, or google will not exist
cause that time Yahoo is good ( but of cuz not good enough). Here i'm
not say cuil is better, instead, just say that there's definitely
could-be-(much?)-better for a search style than currently google, and
this should be the designer's mind-set for it (or else why interaction
design needed? :))

Cheers,
-- Jarod

--
Designing for better life style.

http://jarodtang.spaces.live.com/
http://jarodtang.blogspot.com

2 Aug 2008 - 11:20am
Sharon Greenfield5
2008

Who releases a search product that hasn't gotten at least 12 months of
indexing in?

Work. Business Decision. Ever.

I feel so sorry for their Marketing dept. having to deal with that...

On Aug 2, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Sebi Tauciuc wrote:

> Maybe you weren't indexed yet ;)
>
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Mario Bourque
> <lists at mariobourque.com>wrote:
>
>> Was not able to find mariobourque.com when searching for "Mario
>> Bourque"
>>
>> I like the concept though.
>>

6 Aug 2008 - 3:11pm
Charusmitha Ram
2008

The way cuil attaches pictures to search results makes it inviting and
interesting for searches like this....
http://www.cuil.com/search?q=bread%20recipes&sl=long

But there is too much text in the results displayed and a lot of it is
irrelevant and unnecessary. Also, as I paginated, I noticed that different
webpages from the same website appear in different pages on cuil whereas
google groups and indents webpages from the same site.

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