Terminology issues

14 May 2008 - 2:38pm
6 years ago
8 replies
640 reads
Susie Robson
2004

I need a little help/advice on a terminology issue.

Background: I work in our Business Applications Usability department and we have
many internal applications that we use within the company, across the globe. We
are working on a Local Language project that will focus on our employees in the
offices in China, Japan, and Korea (CJK). This project will focus only on
Contact and Account information.

We will be asking our employees in CJK to enter Customer Contact and Account
information in their Local Language into these applications, as usual, but we
will also be requiring them to enter the Customer Contact and Account
information in Latin characters as well. This will require a bit of redesign for
some of the screens/forms in these apps. This will also mean that they have 2
blocks of fields to work with, in what I'm calling Local Language and Latin
Language. And, it means that they will be toggling their keyboards back and
forth between languages quite a bit. But that's a separate issue.

Local Language means any language for anyone: English, French, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, German, etc. This will be the primary area on each application that everyone will work on.

Latin Language means Latin characters such as English, German, French.

We need to distinguish which fields are for which language, which may (possibly) be a parenthetical label. Such as:

First Name:
Last Name:
First Name (Latin):
Last Name (Latin):
Company Name:
Company Name (Latin):

Keep in mind that the above is not our proposed design but is used only for show here.

The terms Local Language and Latin Language are not the best terms, especially if we have to label fields. Does anyone do anything similar to this? How did you handle it? If you didn't do it but have an opinion or some expertise, I'd love to hear it. And, most importantly, if I didn't make any sense explaining this, please ask for clarification.

At this point, we don't know if everyone in the company will see all the fields or if we make this permissions-based and only CJK sees all the fields.

Thanks in advance. If anyone is interested in the summary, let me know in case I forget to post it here.

Susie Robson

Comments

14 May 2008 - 2:56pm
Oleh Kovalchuke
2006

This is an opinionated suggestion.

1. Use three column format:

Label | Input fields in local language | Input fields in English

or, better yet, use two column format with labels in local language and in
English on top of the respective fields.

2. Set tab order to tab through all the local language fields first, then
through the English fields.

--
Oleh Kovalchuke
Interaction Design is design of time
http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com>
wrote:

> I need a little help/advice on a terminology issue.
>
> Background: I work in our Business Applications Usability department and we
> have
> many internal applications that we use within the company, across the
> globe. We
> are working on a Local Language project that will focus on our employees in
> the
> offices in China, Japan, and Korea (CJK). This project will focus only on
> Contact and Account information.
>
> We will be asking our employees in CJK to enter Customer Contact and
> Account
> information in their Local Language into these applications, as usual, but
> we
> will also be requiring them to enter the Customer Contact and Account
> information in Latin characters as well. This will require a bit of
> redesign for
> some of the screens/forms in these apps. This will also mean that they have
> 2
> blocks of fields to work with, in what I'm calling Local Language and Latin
> Language. And, it means that they will be toggling their keyboards back and
> forth between languages quite a bit. But that's a separate issue.
>
> Local Language means any language for anyone: English, French, Russian,
> Chinese, Japanese, Korean, German, etc. This will be the primary area on
> each application that everyone will work on.
>
> Latin Language means Latin characters such as English, German, French.
>
> We need to distinguish which fields are for which language, which may
> (possibly) be a parenthetical label. Such as:
>
> First Name:
> Last Name:
> First Name (Latin):
> Last Name (Latin):
> Company Name:
> Company Name (Latin):
>
> Keep in mind that the above is not our proposed design but is used only for
> show here.
>
> The terms Local Language and Latin Language are not the best terms,
> especially if we have to label fields. Does anyone do anything similar to
> this? How did you handle it? If you didn't do it but have an opinion or some
> expertise, I'd love to hear it. And, most importantly, if I didn't make any
> sense explaining this, please ask for clarification.
>
> At this point, we don't know if everyone in the company will see all the
> fields or if we make this permissions-based and only CJK sees all the
> fields.
>
> Thanks in advance. If anyone is interested in the summary, let me know in
> case I forget to post it here.
>
> Susie Robson
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

14 May 2008 - 2:59pm
Susie Robson
2004

Thanks Oleh. But the "English" field is not necessarily English. It will be Latin based characters which MAY be English but could also be French or German or some other Latin based character set. What would you call that if you had to put a label on it? And what would you call the Local Language if you had to put a label on that as well?

Susie Robson

14 May 2008 - 3:12pm
Oleh Kovalchuke
2006

I assume that any given person will use only one pair of languages -- French
and Mandarin for example. The languages could be set in preferences/during
installation or in Drop down lists on top of the columns (the choice
depends). The labels then will be "French" and "Mandarin".

--
Oleh Kovalchuke
Interaction Design is design of time
http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com>
wrote:

> Thanks Oleh. But the "English" field is not necessarily English. It will
> be Latin based characters which MAY be English but could also be French or
> German or some other Latin based character set. What would you call that if
> you had to put a label on it? And what would you call the Local Language if
> you had to put a label on that as well?
>
>
>
> Susie Robson
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Oleh Kovalchuke [mailto:tangospring at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:56 PM
> *To:* Susie Robson
> *Cc:* discuss at ixda.org
> *Subject:* Re: [IxDA Discuss] Terminology issues
>
>
>
> This is an opinionated suggestion.
>
>
>
> 1. Use three column format:
>
> Label | Input fields in local language | Input fields in English
>
> or, better yet, use two column format with labels in local language and
> in English on top of the respective fields.
>
>
>
> 2. Set tab order to tab through all the local language fields first, then
> through the English fields.
>
>
>
> --
> Oleh Kovalchuke
> Interaction Design is design of time
> http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com>
> wrote:
>
> I need a little help/advice on a terminology issue.
>
> Background: I work in our Business Applications Usability department and we
> have
> many internal applications that we use within the company, across the
> globe. We
> are working on a Local Language project that will focus on our employees in
> the
> offices in China, Japan, and Korea (CJK). This project will focus only on
> Contact and Account information.
>
> We will be asking our employees in CJK to enter Customer Contact and
> Account
> information in their Local Language into these applications, as usual, but
> we
> will also be requiring them to enter the Customer Contact and Account
> information in Latin characters as well. This will require a bit of
> redesign for
> some of the screens/forms in these apps. This will also mean that they have
> 2
> blocks of fields to work with, in what I'm calling Local Language and Latin
> Language. And, it means that they will be toggling their keyboards back and
> forth between languages quite a bit. But that's a separate issue.
>
> Local Language means any language for anyone: English, French, Russian,
> Chinese, Japanese, Korean, German, etc. This will be the primary area on
> each application that everyone will work on.
>
> Latin Language means Latin characters such as English, German, French.
>
> We need to distinguish which fields are for which language, which may
> (possibly) be a parenthetical label. Such as:
>
> First Name:
> Last Name:
> First Name (Latin):
> Last Name (Latin):
> Company Name:
> Company Name (Latin):
>
> Keep in mind that the above is not our proposed design but is used only for
> show here.
>
> The terms Local Language and Latin Language are not the best terms,
> especially if we have to label fields. Does anyone do anything similar to
> this? How did you handle it? If you didn't do it but have an opinion or some
> expertise, I'd love to hear it. And, most importantly, if I didn't make any
> sense explaining this, please ask for clarification.
>
> At this point, we don't know if everyone in the company will see all the
> fields or if we make this permissions-based and only CJK sees all the
> fields.
>
> Thanks in advance. If anyone is interested in the summary, let me know in
> case I forget to post it here.
>
> Susie Robson
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>
>
>
>

14 May 2008 - 3:23pm
Jeff Howard
2004

Hi Susie,

It seems like this is an issue only if they don't enter their
contact information in a Latin language, yes? So an English or French
speaker wouldn't need to enter their contact information twice? Only
CJK?

My take would be to initially present only one block of fields for
contact information. If this is a web app, then Google's language
API allows for AJAX detection of language on the fly. So as they
type, you could determine in what language they're typing and only
show the "Latin" contact block if necessary, either expanded inline
or on the next page.

If you need to persistently show both blocks of contact input at once
for some reason, then consider labeling the section headers for each
block, not the fields themselves as local or latin. Again, if you can
tell which language they're using, you could lable accordingly.

If they enter their first block of contact information in CJK, is
there a question about which Latin language they'd use for the 2nd
block? Wouldn't the language used for the rest of the site influence
their decision?

// jeff

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=29055

14 May 2008 - 5:33pm
Anonymous

Susie,
I don't suppose there is a way to do the translation for the user is
there? Isn't it just a character mapping? Possibly create a setting
that allows the user or administrator to select the appropriate latin
translation if that is an issue but boy I'm feeling for those users
having to enter that information twice. Some database owner or
backend systems technologist needs to try a little harder to make
that transform work behind the scenes - it feels like something is
being pushed into the interface that isn't necessary. Of course I'm
probably missing something - but these are the kinds of fights we
exist for right?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=29055

15 May 2008 - 8:06am
Susie Robson
2004

No, at this time there is no plans to do the translations. I also feel for these users, especially since the large majority of the time, nobody needs both sets of data. The problem is that we can't always predict when someone will need to see both languages and for what reason.

For 2 applications, they were not built in-house. We use Siebel and another app so we are limited to what we can do with these for UI layout and how the back end works as well.

Susie Robson

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of lois lewis
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:34 AM
To: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Terminology issues

Susie,
I don't suppose there is a way to do the translation for the user is
there? Isn't it just a character mapping? Possibly create a setting
that allows the user or administrator to select the appropriate latin
translation if that is an issue but boy I'm feeling for those users
having to enter that information twice. Some database owner or
backend systems technologist needs to try a little harder to make
that transform work behind the scenes - it feels like something is
being pushed into the interface that isn't necessary. Of course I'm
probably missing something - but these are the kinds of fights we
exist for right?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=29055

________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help

15 May 2008 - 8:12am
Susie Robson
2004

Not quite. I believe (though I'm trying to confirm) that people in our offices in China, Japan, and Korea will use their own language and English and will manually enter this information.

If someone is in our France office, they enter the information once in either French or English as their Local Language (which also happens to be Latin based language) and it would automatically copy itself to the Latin Language fields. Keep in mind that I'm guessing on this one but that seems to be the way it might possibly work.

We don't have complete control over all applications such as Siebel-fyi.

Susie Robson

28 May 2008 - 8:46pm
Anonymous

The asian languages typically have a standard way to represent their
words in a latin alphabet. In Japanese, it's called romaji; In
Mandarin, it's pinyin. I imagine something similar exists for
Korean as well.

I don't think you can really say those romanizations are 'french'
or 'english'. They are still in their original language, just
represented with the latin alphabet.

--
Tim

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=29055

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