The IxD of "Web 2.0" (was Bezos)

6 Oct 2004 - 9:35am
10 years ago
7 replies
504 reads
Dave Malouf
2005

Hi everyone,

Very interesting thread, thanx Ziya!

I was going to add a related thread this morning about what is IxD's role if
any in helping to conceive, conceptualize, and design the behavior around
the semantic web. I was reading the interview with Tim Berners-Lee in the
MIT Technology Reivew (OK, I'm on the Delta Shuttle to Boston a lot and they
give these magazines away for free -- AND I'm a nerd) and he was talking
about building the Semantic Web. It was one a good introduction to it, but
also great to read a vision of it as opposed to techno-mumbo jumbo. Here's
the link:
http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/04/10/frauenfelder1004.asp
(wow, MIT TR uses a windows-based server?????)

So! What is the role of IxD in developing the semantic web. I know that
Bezos said that Web 1.0 was making computers work for people and web 2.0 was
making them work for each other, but once they do that, we will have new
paradigms that will need to take advantage of these new connections. What is
our role in all this?

Like, on a semantic web page, would I have an article w/ a gazillion links
on it? Would the links only appear on mouseover? Type-ahead? Do they change
in style/function? What about "search" how does that change?

Anyway, interesting questions ... Few answers.

-- dave

David Heller
dave (at) ixdg (dot) org
http://www.ixdg.org/

AIM: bolinhanyc \\ Y!: dave_ux \\ MSN: hippiefunk at hotmail.com

Comments

6 Oct 2004 - 12:17pm
Thomas Vander Wal
2004

There seems to be at least one layer missing today, but it is one that
something like attention.xml could solve. The idea of billions of
links on a page (Sagan made everything sound so futuristic just by
saying billions) is a problem, but many of the links could be
redundant. Anybody that has a feed (RSS/Atom) aggregator will state a
good percentage of their sources repeat what other sources state. The
key is to cull out repetitive items (will these tools be smart enought
to understand subtle differences? Who knows).

All the best,
Thomas

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:35:53 -0400, David Heller <dave at ixdg.org> wrote:

> I was going to add a related thread this morning about what is IxD's role if
> any in helping to conceive, conceptualize, and design the behavior around
> the semantic web. I was reading the interview with Tim Berners-Lee in the
> MIT Technology Reivew (OK, I'm on the Delta Shuttle to Boston a lot and they
> give these magazines away for free -- AND I'm a nerd) and he was talking
> about building the Semantic Web. It was one a good introduction to it, but
> also great to read a vision of it as opposed to techno-mumbo jumbo. Here's
> the link:
> http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/04/10/frauenfelder1004.asp
> (wow, MIT TR uses a windows-based server?????)
>
> So! What is the role of IxD in developing the semantic web. I know that
> Bezos said that Web 1.0 was making computers work for people and web 2.0 was
> making them work for each other, but once they do that, we will have new
> paradigms that will need to take advantage of these new connections. What is
> our role in all this?
>
> Like, on a semantic web page, would I have an article w/ a gazillion links
> on it? Would the links only appear on mouseover? Type-ahead? Do they change
> in style/function? What about "search" how does that change?
>
> Anyway, interesting questions ... Few answers.

6 Oct 2004 - 12:42pm
Petteri Hiisilä
2004

> I was going to add a related thread this morning about what is IxD's role if
> any in helping to conceive, conceptualize, and design the behavior around
> the semantic web.

Sounds interesting. Does anyone know, what problem the "semantic web"
shall solve for the human end user? Except that it's cool and must be
created as a "logic improvement" to 1.0.

I mean, if Web 2.0 was working TODAY (that's magic), what would our
normal day in a life be like? For me? For who? What's the difference?
(I'm sure it must be at least a little bit better. Otherwise it would be
a waste of time, wouldn't it?)

I'm asking this because I'm not interested in the "possibilities" it
will or will not provide. I'm interested in the solutions that it would
provide, assuming that it was available today. It's the solution to
exactly WHAT problem? One good example/story is enough.

Or do we just "have to" need it?

Just curious...

- Petteri

6 Oct 2004 - 12:48pm
Listera
2004

Petteri Hiisilä:

> It's the solution to exactly WHAT problem?

Amazon has an overstock of iPods in its current inventory. You once bought a
book on fly-fishing. You do the math!
:-)

Ziya
Nullius in Verba

6 Oct 2004 - 12:54pm
Petteri Hiisilä
2004

> Petteri:
>>It's the solution to exactly WHAT problem?
>

Ziya:
> Amazon has an overstock of iPods in its current inventory. You once bought a
> book on fly-fishing. You do the math!
> :-)

Yeah. Btw:

http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/04/10/frauenfelder1004.asp

"The father of the World Wide Web shared his concerns—and dreams—the day
before flying to Helsinki to accept his Millennium prize."

Hey, I used to live there! At LAST some fame for Finland. Too bad it
costs a fortune. That prize is million dollars. Agreed, Sir Tim has
earned it. He's a good guy.

Can't wait for the semantic web...

- Petteri

6 Oct 2004 - 5:36pm
Listera
2004

David Heller:

> Like, on a semantic web page, would I have an article w/ a gazillion links
> on it? Would the links only appear on mouseover? Type-ahead? Do they change
> in style/function? What about "search" how does that change?

Well, Bezos did answer that by pointing out:

<http://musicplasma.com>

Does this work? Looking at the history of similar visualization efforts, the
empirical evidence is pretty clear.

The principal promise of Semantic Web (how I hate that phrase) is that the
machine makes the connection for you. In other words, in that fantasy world
you don't get gazillion links, just the utterly relevant ones. :-)

Ziya
Nullius in Verba

7 Oct 2004 - 4:12am
Dan Zlotnikov
2004

That's one bit of info I was unable to find -- HOW does musicplasma
form its connections? Is this based on manual input by thousands of
users, the way GNOD ( http://www.gnod.net/ ) and the 20 question game
( http://y.20q.net:8095/ ), or is this done through some complex
algorithm that has little to no input from the users? A quick google
has failed to reveal anything about the underlying concepts.

As for semantic nets, here are a few current ones.

WordNet ( http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn/ ) is effectively a
semantic net-based dictionary.
Google Sets ( http://labs.google.com/sets ) uses (I'm guessing)
something similar in order to extrapolate the set from the user's list
of members. It works about half the time, in my experience.
I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I seem to recall expert
systems and decision-support software using semantic nets as well.

Now, if only my web-enabled fridge extrapolated what I was making for
dinner, cross-checked its own contents against the recipe, and ordered
whatever was missing.

On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:36:20 -0400, Listera <listera at rcn.com> wrote:
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> David Heller:
>
> > Like, on a semantic web page, would I have an article w/ a gazillion links
> > on it? Would the links only appear on mouseover? Type-ahead? Do they change
> > in style/function? What about "search" how does that change?
>
> Well, Bezos did answer that by pointing out:
>
> <http://musicplasma.com>
>
> Does this work? Looking at the history of similar visualization efforts, the
> empirical evidence is pretty clear.
>
> The principal promise of Semantic Web (how I hate that phrase) is that the
> machine makes the connection for you. In other words, in that fantasy world
> you don't get gazillion links, just the utterly relevant ones. :-)
>
> Ziya
> Nullius in Verba
>
>
>
>
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--
WatCHI
http://www.acm.org/chapters/watchi

7 Oct 2004 - 4:19am
Listera
2004

Dan Zlotnikov:

> Now, if only my web-enabled fridge extrapolated what I was making for
> dinner, cross-checked its own contents against the recipe, and ordered
> whatever was missing.

Well, your lucky day:

I recently saw a TV report on a fridge that scans its contents, goes to
epicurious.com (or somewhere similar) and suggests on its web enabled LCD
screen potential recipes that can be put together with available
ingredients. I think it also connects to a web service for ordering
recurring items. I think it was one of these:

<http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,59858,00.html?tw=wn_story_relat
ed>

Ziya
Nullius in Verba

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