can you please discuss the effect of the US recession

25 Mar 2008 - 8:34am
6 years ago
21 replies
563 reads
sreeramen ramaswamy
2008

Hello all,
Can you please discuss the effect of the US economic recession and its
impacts for usability contractors. If you guys choose contractors for your
company what are the things that would be critical to the decision? Do you
guys think the prices would go down and by how much? I know it is going to
vary across the US geography (east coast, west coast, and so on). It would
be useful to get as much as details as possible.

Please add other relevant topics in context of the discussion if I have
missed out.

thanks,
sreeramen

Comments

25 Mar 2008 - 9:22am
Benjamin Ho
2007

As far as I know and read, there is no recession. It's actually
called, "stagflation" stemming straight from the sub-prime mortgage
market.

How this would affect usability contracts, I would think depends
entirely on the industry and the company.

As for what's critical to whether or not to involve a company
depends much on their clientele, how they work and whether it aligns
with company strategy.

If you're a contracting company, it would be in your best interest
to NOT lower your pricing for your services - unless of course you
think your company isn't worth the money.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=27558

25 Mar 2008 - 9:27am
SemanticWill
2007

Exactly. Technically - a recession is six consecutive months of decline in
economic activity measured by such things as a decline in GDP. This has not
happened in the US. So far - there has only been a decrease in the rate of
growth of the economy, but there has been no net decrease in GDP. Not even
for one month.

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:22:54, Benjamin Ho <benoh2 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> As far as I know and read, there is no recession. It's actually
> called, "stagflation" stemming straight from the sub-prime mortgage
> market.
>
> How this would affect usability contracts, I would think depends
> entirely on the industry and the company.
>
> As for what's critical to whether or not to involve a company
> depends much on their clientele, how they work and whether it aligns
> with company strategy.
>
> If you're a contracting company, it would be in your best interest
> to NOT lower your pricing for your services - unless of course you
> think your company isn't worth the money.
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Posted from the new ixda.org
> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=27558
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | CrowdSprout
tel +1.617.281.1281 | fax +1.617.507.6016 | will at crowdsprout.com

25 Mar 2008 - 10:04am
Raminder Oberoi
2007

Report: Despite Economy, Web Will Grow in '08
http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/recent_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003727162

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:27 AM, W Evans <wkevans4 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Exactly. Technically - a recession is six consecutive months of decline in
> economic activity measured by such things as a decline in GDP. This has not
> happened in the US. So far - there has only been a decrease in the rate of
> growth of the economy, but there has been no net decrease in GDP. Not even
> for one month.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:22:54, Benjamin Ho <benoh2 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > As far as I know and read, there is no recession. It's actually
> > called, "stagflation" stemming straight from the sub-prime mortgage
> > market.
> >
> > How this would affect usability contracts, I would think depends
> > entirely on the industry and the company.
> >
> > As for what's critical to whether or not to involve a company
> > depends much on their clientele, how they work and whether it aligns
> > with company strategy.
> >
> > If you're a contracting company, it would be in your best interest
> > to NOT lower your pricing for your services - unless of course you
> > think your company isn't worth the money.
> >
> >
> > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> > Posted from the new ixda.org
> > http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=27558
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ~ will
>
> "Where you innovate, how you innovate,
> and what you innovate are design problems"
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Will Evans | CrowdSprout
> tel +1.617.281.1281 | fax +1.617.507.6016 | will at crowdsprout.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
Raminder Oberoi
sinioberoi at gmail.com

25 Mar 2008 - 10:17am
Tim Lynch
2005

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Raminder Oberoi <sinioberoi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Report: Despite Economy, Web Will Grow in '08
>
> http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/recent_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003727162

I can't speak directly to the impact the current economic "situation" is
having on the contractors, but in the Boston area reports are that the
general IT industry is doing ok (in terms of jobs and hiring):

What Recession? Region's IT Economy is Booming (3/13/08)
http://www.xconomy.com/2008/03/13/what-recession-regions-it-economy-is-booming/

Talent Wars: How Boston-Area IT Companies Are Dealing With A Severe Staffing
Crunch (12/5/07)
http://www.xconomy.com/2007/12/05/talent-wars-how-boston-area-it-companies-are-dealing-with-a-severe-staffing-crunch/

- Tim

--
http://www.clampants.com
http://clampants.tumblr.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/clampants/

25 Mar 2008 - 12:32pm
Ari
2006

staffing in tech in general was going great in 2000 too and many of us know
what happened there.

the credit issue is a big problem. it means startups will have problems
finding funding to keep operating and existing businesses will have harder
times finding the money they need to expand their businesses. credit fuels
the economy. things are now getting aggravated by the prospect of inflation
as the fed is now printing money like water.

while i don't see signs of hyper-inflation ala Wiemar Republic Germany c.
1930, it's not looking pretty.

what's more, many internet businesses are directly involved in or heavily
reliant on advertising and related services for revenue. ad spending tends
to dry up in slower economic times, which ultimately leads to fewer projects
or cut backs altogether.

i've been through 2001 and 2002 - very lean years. there are quite a few
differences in the marketplace between now and then (a lot of the chaff is
now gone) but i fear that the stench of those days is starting to waft
again.

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Tim Lynch <clampants at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Raminder Oberoi <sinioberoi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Report: Despite Economy, Web Will Grow in '08
> >
> >
> http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/recent_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003727162
>
>
> I can't speak directly to the impact the current economic "situation" is
> having on the contractors, but in the Boston area reports are that the
> general IT industry is doing ok (in terms of jobs and hiring):
>
> What Recession? Region's IT Economy is Booming (3/13/08)
>
> http://www.xconomy.com/2008/03/13/what-recession-regions-it-economy-is-booming/
>
> Talent Wars: How Boston-Area IT Companies Are Dealing With A Severe
> Staffing
> Crunch (12/5/07)
>
> http://www.xconomy.com/2007/12/05/talent-wars-how-boston-area-it-companies-are-dealing-with-a-severe-staffing-crunch/
>
> - Tim
>
> --
> http://www.clampants.com
> http://clampants.tumblr.com/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/clampants/
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
--------------------------------------------------
www.flyingyogi.com
--------------------------------------------------

25 Mar 2008 - 12:53pm
Chris Bernard
2007

For what it's worth, I work with a number of design agencies and partners right now (large and small) in the US and around the world. I've yet to see a sign of slowdown in the current pace of work or the pipeline that many partners have. I think many design and technology firms are not as vulnerable as they were the last time around due to more thoughtful staffing and management of growth. We also need to remember that the fixed costs of running a business are much more flexible now then they even were 8 years ago.

If I were running a studio right now though and I realized I had extra cycles I'd consider started a lab or that tries to productize some of my services or ideas into some type of annuity. Think 37 Signals or firms like Thirteen23.com and Cynergy Systems that have built labs for their ideas. Or even Adaptive Path, which has done a brilliant job of monetizing their intellectual capital.

Chris Bernard
Microsoft
User Experience Evangelist
chris.bernard at microsoft.com
630.530.4208 Office
312.925.4095 Mobile

Blog: www.designthinkingdigest.com
Design: www.microsoft.com/design
Tools: www.microsoft.com/expression
Community: http://www.visitmix.com

"The future is already here. It's just not evenly distributed." William Gibson

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Ari Feldman
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:33 PM
To: Tim Lynch
Cc: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] can you please discuss the effect of the US recession

staffing in tech in general was going great in 2000 too and many of us know
what happened there.

the credit issue is a big problem. it means startups will have problems
finding funding to keep operating and existing businesses will have harder
times finding the money they need to expand their businesses. credit fuels
the economy. things are now getting aggravated by the prospect of inflation
as the fed is now printing money like water.

while i don't see signs of hyper-inflation ala Wiemar Republic Germany c.
1930, it's not looking pretty.

what's more, many internet businesses are directly involved in or heavily
reliant on advertising and related services for revenue. ad spending tends
to dry up in slower economic times, which ultimately leads to fewer projects
or cut backs altogether.

i've been through 2001 and 2002 - very lean years. there are quite a few
differences in the marketplace between now and then (a lot of the chaff is
now gone) but i fear that the stench of those days is starting to waft
again.

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Tim Lynch <clampants at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Raminder Oberoi <sinioberoi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Report: Despite Economy, Web Will Grow in '08
> >
> >
> http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/recent_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003727162
>
>
> I can't speak directly to the impact the current economic "situation" is
> having on the contractors, but in the Boston area reports are that the
> general IT industry is doing ok (in terms of jobs and hiring):
>
> What Recession? Region's IT Economy is Booming (3/13/08)
>
> http://www.xconomy.com/2008/03/13/what-recession-regions-it-economy-is-booming/
>
> Talent Wars: How Boston-Area IT Companies Are Dealing With A Severe
> Staffing
> Crunch (12/5/07)
>
> http://www.xconomy.com/2007/12/05/talent-wars-how-boston-area-it-companies-are-dealing-with-a-severe-staffing-crunch/
>
> - Tim
>
> --
> http://www.clampants.com
> http://clampants.tumblr.com/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/clampants/
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
--------------------------------------------------
www.flyingyogi.com
--------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help

25 Mar 2008 - 1:13pm
SemanticWill
2007

Chris,

As always you bring up an interesting point. I wonder if there have been any
others studies are the number of consultancies that have diversified their
service offerings to even out their revenue streams. The easiest to come to
mind is Adapative Path - which took a stable of high quality UX consultants
and diversified into education/training. Recently I have come to wonder what
percentage of their revenue still comes from UX consulting at all. Many
UX/IA consultants pad their income streams with speaking engagements - and
in fact some give up the practice of ux altogether when the speaking/guru
lucre becomes to enticing to ignore.

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Chris Bernard <Chris.Bernard at microsoft.com>
wrote:

> For what it's worth, I work with a number of design agencies and partners
> right now (large and small) in the US and around the world. I've yet to see
> a sign of slowdown in the current pace of work or the pipeline that many
> partners have. I think many design and technology firms are not as
> vulnerable as they were the last time around due to more thoughtful staffing
> and management of growth. We also need to remember that the fixed costs of
> running a business are much more flexible now then they even were 8 years
> ago.
>
> If I were running a studio right now though and I realized I had extra
> cycles I'd consider started a lab or that tries to productize some of my
> services or ideas into some type of annuity. Think 37 Signals or firms like
> Thirteen23.com and Cynergy Systems that have built labs for their ideas.
> Or even Adaptive Path, which has done a brilliant job of monetizing their
> intellectual capital.
>
> Chris Bernard
> Microsoft
> User Experience Evangelist
> chris.bernard at microsoft.com
> 630.530.4208 Office
> 312.925.4095 Mobile
>
>
>
> Blog: www.designthinkingdigest.com
> Design: www.microsoft.com/design
> Tools: www.microsoft.com/expression
> Community: http://www.visitmix.com
>
> "The future is already here. It's just not evenly distributed." William
> Gibson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Ari Feldman
> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:33 PM
> To: Tim Lynch
> Cc: discuss at ixda.org
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] can you please discuss the effect of the US
> recession
>
> staffing in tech in general was going great in 2000 too and many of us
> know
> what happened there.
>
> the credit issue is a big problem. it means startups will have problems
> finding funding to keep operating and existing businesses will have harder
> times finding the money they need to expand their businesses. credit fuels
> the economy. things are now getting aggravated by the prospect of
> inflation
> as the fed is now printing money like water.
>
> while i don't see signs of hyper-inflation ala Wiemar Republic Germany c.
> 1930, it's not looking pretty.
>
> what's more, many internet businesses are directly involved in or heavily
> reliant on advertising and related services for revenue. ad spending tends
> to dry up in slower economic times, which ultimately leads to fewer
> projects
> or cut backs altogether.
>
> i've been through 2001 and 2002 - very lean years. there are quite a few
> differences in the marketplace between now and then (a lot of the chaff is
> now gone) but i fear that the stench of those days is starting to waft
> again.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Tim Lynch <clampants at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Raminder Oberoi <sinioberoi at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Report: Despite Economy, Web Will Grow in '08
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/recent_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003727162
> >
> >
> > I can't speak directly to the impact the current economic "situation" is
> > having on the contractors, but in the Boston area reports are that the
> > general IT industry is doing ok (in terms of jobs and hiring):
> >
> > What Recession? Region's IT Economy is Booming (3/13/08)
> >
> >
> http://www.xconomy.com/2008/03/13/what-recession-regions-it-economy-is-booming/
> >
> > Talent Wars: How Boston-Area IT Companies Are Dealing With A Severe
> > Staffing
> > Crunch (12/5/07)
> >
> >
> http://www.xconomy.com/2007/12/05/talent-wars-how-boston-area-it-companies-are-dealing-with-a-severe-staffing-crunch/
> >
> > - Tim
> >
> > --
> > http://www.clampants.com
> > http://clampants.tumblr.com/
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/clampants/
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------
> www.flyingyogi.com
> --------------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | CrowdSprout
tel +1.617.281.1281 | fax +1.617.507.6016 | will at crowdsprout.com

25 Mar 2008 - 2:48pm
Dan Saffer
2003

On Mar 25, 2008, at 11:13 AM, W Evans wrote:

> The easiest to come to
> mind is Adapative Path - which took a stable of high quality UX
> consultants
> and diversified into education/training. Recently I have come to
> wonder what
> percentage of their revenue still comes from UX consulting at all.

A considerable majority. If we did no consulting, we'd soon have very
little of substance to talk about. Conferences are an extension of our
consulting work, not a replacement by any means.

(Join us at MX, UX Intensive, and UX Week! Use my code FODS and get
15% off! March 31 is the date for some early ird specials! <http://www.adaptivepath.com/events/
>)

I couldn't resist. :)

Dan

Dan Saffer
Experience Design Director, Adaptive Path
http://www.adaptivepath.com

25 Mar 2008 - 2:34pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

>
> Many UX/IA consultants pad their income streams with speaking engagements
> - and
> in fact some give up the practice of ux altogether when the speaking/guru
> lucre becomes to enticing to ignore.

Speaking engagements (conferences and the like) are rarely lucrative or
reliable enough to qualify as income, unless, I suppose, you're an
uber-famous guru like Nielsen or Krug.

Training sessions (full day, 1/2 day, etc), on the other hand, can be
lucrative, but only if you charge enough for them to offset all the time you
take away from client work with traveling and preparation and such. This
could be more lucrative if you have several people can do them, and maybe
put together a conference or two (like Adaptive Path did).

AP definitely still does consulting work, by the way.

-r-

25 Mar 2008 - 5:11pm
SemanticWill
2007

I have heard through the grapevine that your events are great - but why are
you guys such snobs when it comes to geography. Most of your things are in
SF. You know there is an entire world of IxD/UX people on the East Coast.

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Dan Saffer <dan at odannyboy.com> wrote:

>
> On Mar 25, 2008, at 11:13 AM, W Evans wrote:
>
> > The easiest to come to
> > mind is Adapative Path - which took a stable of high quality UX
> > consultants
> > and diversified into education/training. Recently I have come to
> > wonder what
> > percentage of their revenue still comes from UX consulting at all.
>
> A considerable majority. If we did no consulting, we'd soon have very
> little of substance to talk about. Conferences are an extension of our
> consulting work, not a replacement by any means.
>
> (Join us at MX, UX Intensive, and UX Week! Use my code FODS and get
> 15% off! March 31 is the date for some early ird specials! <
> http://www.adaptivepath.com/events/
> >)
>
> I couldn't resist. :)
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> Dan Saffer
> Experience Design Director, Adaptive Path
> http://www.adaptivepath.com
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | CrowdSprout
tel +1.617.281.1281 | fax +1.617.507.6016 | will at crowdsprout.com

25 Mar 2008 - 5:16pm
Dan Saffer
2003

On Mar 25, 2008, at 3:11 PM, W Evans wrote:

> I have heard through the grapevine that your events are great - but
> why are you guys such snobs when it comes to geography. Most of your
> things are in SF. You know there is an entire world of IxD/UX people
> on the East Coast.

We're not snobs, we're cheap! NYC and Boston hotel rates kill us. We
did hold UX Week in DC every year for five years, and two years ago I
taught the Designing for Interaction workshop in NYC, so we're not
totally avoiding the east coast. UX Intensive in June is in
Minneapolis...

Dan

25 Mar 2008 - 5:40pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

>
> UX Intensive in June is in Minneapolis...

Strangely, this is the second conference I've heard about in two days that
will be in Minneapolis. It's also only the second conference I've heard
about in my life that will be held in Minneapolis.

-r-

25 Mar 2008 - 7:00pm
SemanticWill
2007

Maybe Minneapolis is going to overtake SF as the UX center of the universe.

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 6:40 PM, Robert Hoekman Jr <robert at rhjr.net> wrote:

> UX Intensive in June is in Minneapolis...
>
>
> Strangely, this is the second conference I've heard about in two days that
> will be in Minneapolis. It's also only the second conference I've heard
> about in my life that will be held in Minneapolis.
>
> -r-
>

--
~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | CrowdSprout
tel +1.617.281.1281 | fax +1.617.507.6016 | will at crowdsprout.com

25 Mar 2008 - 7:28pm
Mark Schraad
2006

Actually a very cool town. Lots if industry headquarters by midwest
standards and the headquarters of Target (if you consider them a
design patron).

On Mar 25, 2008, at 6:40 PM, Robert Hoekman Jr wrote:

>>
>> UX Intensive in June is in Minneapolis...
>
>
> Strangely, this is the second conference I've heard about in two
> days that
> will be in Minneapolis. It's also only the second conference I've
> heard
> about in my life that will be held in Minneapolis.
>
> -r-
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help

25 Mar 2008 - 8:06pm
Mark Schraad
2006

I want to. But I wonder if it is mostly a marketing position
(differentiation) and lip service. Though they do show up at the
Cooper-Hewitt as a sponsor. Regardless of commitment and intent, they
do positively effect the general publics sensitivity to good design,
which is a good thing.

On Mar 25, 2008, at 8:47 PM, W Evans wrote:

> Actually - I do consider Target a design patron. I don't know their
> numbers, but its evident they spent a lot of time and money on
> their e-commerce site and while it may not win any design awards -
> I think its very effective. I would say that the entire IxD
> experience there is no better or worse than Amazon - and that says
> something.
>
> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 8:28 PM, mark schraad <mschraad at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Actually a very cool town. Lots if industry headquarters by midwest
> standards and the headquarters of Target (if you consider them a
> design patron).
>
>
> On Mar 25, 2008, at 6:40 PM, Robert Hoekman Jr wrote:
>
> >>
> >> UX Intensive in June is in Minneapolis...
> >
> >
> > Strangely, this is the second conference I've heard about in two
> > days that
> > will be in Minneapolis. It's also only the second conference I've
> > heard
> > about in my life that will be held in Minneapolis.
> >
> > -r-
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>
> ________________________________________________________________
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> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
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>
>
>
> --
> ~ will
>
> "Where you innovate, how you innovate,
> and what you innovate are design problems"
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------
> Will Evans | CrowdSprout
> tel +1.617.281.1281 | fax +1.617.507.6016 | will at crowdsprout.com

25 Mar 2008 - 7:47pm
SemanticWill
2007

Actually - I do consider Target a design patron. I don't know their numbers,
but its evident they spent a lot of time and money on their e-commerce site
and while it may not win any design awards - I think its very effective. I
would say that the entire IxD experience there is no better or worse than
Amazon - and that says something.

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 8:28 PM, mark schraad <mschraad at gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually a very cool town. Lots if industry headquarters by midwest
> standards and the headquarters of Target (if you consider them a
> design patron).
>
>
> On Mar 25, 2008, at 6:40 PM, Robert Hoekman Jr wrote:
>
> >>
> >> UX Intensive in June is in Minneapolis...
> >
> >
> > Strangely, this is the second conference I've heard about in two
> > days that
> > will be in Minneapolis. It's also only the second conference I've
> > heard
> > about in my life that will be held in Minneapolis.
> >
> > -r-
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | CrowdSprout
tel +1.617.281.1281 | fax +1.617.507.6016 | will at crowdsprout.com

25 Mar 2008 - 9:03pm
Steve Baty
2009

Coming back to the original point, I think it's important to remember that,
unlike 8 years ago, the cause of the economic slow-down is significantly
different. In 2000 we saw a large % of the sharemarket value wiped out as a
result of the loss in confidence of the technology sector. Up until that
point the value of many technology stocks were riding a wave of media hype
fueled by a generally strong economy (9 years of consistent growth in the US
and global markets) and higher disposable incomes (reinforced by low
inflation and rising wages).

As investment funds were pulled out of the sharemarket in 2000, a lot of
companies that had previously been very liquid - using their rising
sharemarket valuations to access cheap investment funds - were suddenly
devoid of their cash. The result was a general loss of momentum and
investment within our industry, and it flowed on to other industries via the
investment funds that lost so much as the markets fell.

Unfortunately, there wasn't all that much going on globally to help balance
out the sharp decline in growth and the lack of available investment funds.

More importantly, all the hype about the Web and the Internet leading up to
2000 was invalidated in the minds of many when the share prices fell. So
when funds for marketing & advertising started to dry up, organizations
moved their investments back to traditional media channels.

We are currently looking at a different set of conditions although many of
the macro-level effects are similar: low GDP growth; increasing cost of
investment funds; decreasing availability of investment.

The current economic problems are largely the result of structural issues
introduced with the deregulation of financial markets, and the
commoditisation of credit over the past few years. The success of the
sub-prime mortgage markets was predicated on the continued strength of the
housing market in the US, as well as the US & global economies; the
deterioration of that strength resulted in the issues we see today, out of
proportion to the level of bad debt being experienced.

Over the next few quarters we will see a similar tightening of corporate
investment in advertising & marketing spend that we witnessed in 2000. This
is a natural response to 'tough times' although not necessarily the wisest.
However, it will happen...

We are also seeing a global economic condition that is markedly different
from the prevailing macro-economic conditions of 2000. China and India's
economies are going strongly, and fueling a global surge in resource prices
and companies as they feed their hungry burgeoning industries. Cost
conditions (i.e. cost of production) is still relatively low in these
countries, so they will be less affected by reduced manufacturing capacity
globally. Similarly, markets & economies in Europe have been reasonably well
protected from the sub-prime mortgage effects.

All economies globally are seeing higher interest rates and a higher cost of
credit which is impacting the funds available for companies to make capital
investment.

But unlike the patterns we saw in 2000, organizations will be looking to
invest in smarter advertising & marketing channels and these days that
definitely means online channels; viral campaigns; and social media. And to
take maximum advantage of these environments requires the application of the
expertise you find represented here in this forum.

So, what do you - as a practitioner - do to protect yourself during times
such as these? Work on your ability to demonstrate measurable value; greater
effectiveness; higher levels of customer engagement. Pay attention to the
impact of the economy on your client - work with these constraints; give
them options.

One final note by way of caveat: in 2000 a significant portion of both the
market bubble and the market crash were the result of a mob mentality rather
than any objective analysis of the value of the companies. The psychology of
financial markets is more important these days than the finance: and that
means change can occur very rapidly, and with disregard for the economic
fundamentals.

Steve
----------------------------------------------
Steve 'Doc' Baty B.Sc (Maths), M.EC, MBA
Principal Consultant
Meld Consulting
M: +61 417 061 292
E: stevebaty at meld.com.au

UX Statistics: http://uxstats.blogspot.com

Member, UPA - www.upassoc.org
Member, IxDA - www.ixda.org
Contributor - UXMatters - www.uxmatters.com

25 Mar 2008 - 8:44pm
Chris Bernard
2007

Target's commerce site is no better or worse than Amazon because it is Amazon. It using a re-skinned store front and Amazon's distribution centers and technical infrastructure to handle their ecommerce functions. I'd consider them a design patron though. They democratized and commercialized design in retail with far more influence than other retailers with their large footprint. At least up until Apple started putting stores in Omaha and Des Moines.

Minneapolis is a great interactive design town. The Minnesota Interactive Marketing Association (mima.org) is one of the more vibrant and diverse design communities I've seen in just about any city (IxDA company excluded of course :). They've got an active community of about 850 folks that pay annual dues of about $250 a year and they host some fantastic events.

Chris Bernard
Microsoft
User Experience Evangelist
chris.bernard at microsoft.com
630.530.4208 Office
312.925.4095 Mobile

Blog: www.designthinkingdigest.com
Design: www.microsoft.com/design
Tools: www.microsoft.com/expression
Community: http://www.visitmix.com

"The future is already here. It's just not evenly distributed." William Gibson

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of W Evans
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:48 PM
To: mark schraad
Cc: IXDA list
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] can you please discuss the effect of the US recession

Actually - I do consider Target a design patron. I don't know their numbers,
but its evident they spent a lot of time and money on their e-commerce site
and while it may not win any design awards - I think its very effective. I
would say that the entire IxD experience there is no better or worse than
Amazon - and that says something.

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 8:28 PM, mark schraad <mschraad at gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually a very cool town. Lots if industry headquarters by midwest
> standards and the headquarters of Target (if you consider them a
> design patron).
>
>
> On Mar 25, 2008, at 6:40 PM, Robert Hoekman Jr wrote:
>
> >>
> >> UX Intensive in June is in Minneapolis...
> >
> >
> > Strangely, this is the second conference I've heard about in two
> > days that
> > will be in Minneapolis. It's also only the second conference I've
> > heard
> > about in my life that will be held in Minneapolis.
> >
> > -r-
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | CrowdSprout
tel +1.617.281.1281 | fax +1.617.507.6016 | will at crowdsprout.com
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help

26 Mar 2008 - 11:34am
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

>
> Minneapolis is a great interactive design town.

Isn't Best Buy also headquartered there? Not that Best Buy is an example of
good design, but they're obviously a tech-oriented company, which I suppose
could mean something.

But I do love their
ROWE<http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_50/b4013001.htm>.
Other companies should learn from them.

-r-

26 Mar 2008 - 1:26pm
jrrogan
2005

Comming back to the original point again,

Steve's post is interesting but I think it can be more plainly put:

Our field will be less impacted in 2008 downturn then it was in 2001
downturn, because the 2001 downturn was directly tech related and the 2008
downturn is not.

Details:

2001 collapse was Tech related, impacting mainly Internet ".com" companies
and companies that supported ".coms". This is our industry, as most of us
worked in ".coms" or similarly Internet based co.s, and we were hit
incredibly hard.

The 2001 collapse was based on ridiculous valuations for companies,
many with no solid business model to ever justify these valuations. Bankers
"pumped and dumped" Tech IPO's and made lots of $$$.

The rest of the economy wasn't nearly as effected, hence the NASDAQ, (tech
heavy), dropped from 5500 to 1500 in a period of months, and the Dow, (more
diversified), went from 10,500 to 10,250, (not sure about exact #'s but
they're close).

The 2008 collapse is Real Estate and Financial Services related. New loan
products were introduced, (CDO's, etc), allowing a large international pool
of investors to flood the US with cash. This went on for 8 or so years,
until the underlying assets, (often houses), became so ridiculously
overpriced, that no one was willing to pretend the values would keep rising,
and the whole house of cards fell down.

The 2008 collapse will affect a much larger market then just the Tech
sector, as all Credit Markets are hit. All markets will tighten, but Tech
will not be singled out.

(Note the scale of the credit market crisis could shift balances of power,
causing unforeseen havoc - keep in mind all US Stock Markets are worth less
then 1/2 of US Credit Markets).

As far as the international markets go, they'll be hit as well, but many
emerging markets are much more independent now, and so won't be as adversely
impacted by a US downturn.

The 2008 downturn will not affect our industry as deeply as 2001, it's not
as directly related to tech. Also we're on the leading edge for commerce,
entertainment, and have a thumb in virtually all markets, this is not going
to stop, although it will probably slow down.

Keeping all this in mind, 2001 was like the great depression for Tech, 2008
will still probably suck :(

--
Joseph Rich Rogan
President UX/UI Inc.
http://www.jrrogan.com

26 Mar 2008 - 3:29pm
Troy Gardner
2008

I concur that the impact will be far larger, we are still at the
beginning and it's hard to tell what's going to happen, as the FED
keeps attempting damage control, and this isn't like anything
previous, other than the similarities in everything being
interconnected. Like in 2001...many of the companies even with viable
business models failed, due to all the customers retreating or blowing
up.

It's very curious though. If I look to my left, I can't find skilled
IA's/iXD, project managers, or programmers...demands is still high
pool still small, and seemingly growing in my field (RIA's, games
etc)...for example: how many jobs get posted here in a week?.

If I look to my right, I have a few friends considering foreclosure as
they have -60K to -100K of negative equity, and friends which are
routinely 6-60K in personal debt, but not generally living
exhorbantly, often just paying off college years.

A risk for dedicated IA/Useability is the skills can normally be
absorbed by other departments, marketing/sales, engineering, and
customer service. So I'd expect that people might have to be mobile
if consulting with small businesses, or expand the breadth of services
or focus on niche areas.

Troy.

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