Re: Morality and Windows UI Compliance

19 Aug 2004 - 10:11am
444 reads
Jef Raskin
2004

Carl,

The Mac interface is hardly better than Windows. The differences are
mostly trivial. I have written a number of critiques of it.

You ask for alternative guidelines: Have you seen my book?

"Also, we're in business, our customers demand
> windows compliant stuff - and yes, this is exactly what they do demand
> however unfortunate that is."

I am in business, too. When customers demand something dumb, I explain
how they can do better.

Your statement about morality served by following one particular guide
is a dangerous one: if you choose a bad guide then you are consistently
hurting users. It sounds like the "good soldier" excuse.

My moral position is that as professional interface engineers we are
beholden to build interfaces that work as well as we know how. If we
were building bridges the way we build interfaces, we'd be sued out of
existence. If our engineering guidelines for structural soundness were
comparable to the Microsoft UI guidelines, most bridges would collapse.

Jef

On Aug 19, 2004, at 5:12 AM, carl.myhill at ps.ge.com wrote:

> Please explain.
>
> I find my morality better served by following one particular style
> guide
> than letting programmers loose in a hundred different directions to
> inflict
> torturous inconsistency upon the users whom they will never meet.
>
> If there was a nice big comprehensive open source style guide, of
> course
> that'd do fine. Microsoft seem to have the most comprehensive
> guidelines
> available, so we follow those. Also, we're in business, our customers
> demand
> windows compliant stuff - and yes, this is exactly what they do demand
> however unfortunate that is.
>
> I just bought a Mac recently - first time I've used one in years of
> doing
> this job. It has some nice ideas and some junk in there too. Wouldnt
> it be
> nice to scroll a page of help text without having to click into the
> window
> to give it focus first?!
>
> Would like to understand better your morality position.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jef Raskin [mailto:jef at jefraskin.com]
> Sent: 19 August 2004 06:28
> To: Myhill, Carl S (GE Energy)
> Subject: Re: [ID Discuss] Windows UI Compliance Checklist?
>
>
> Of course, it is immoral to follow the Windows guidelines.
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2004, at 4:15 AM, carl.myhill at ps.ge.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks Jonathon for the link to the Windows guidelines. What I really
>> need
>> though is a checklist. If I look across 50 concurrent projects, how
>> can I
>> ensure they are following the guidelines?
>>
>> Thanks Mark for the comments on standard comments. I agree that
>> standard
>> widgets give you some basic level of consistency. However, a text
>> label is a
>> fairly standard component and yet Capitalisation guidelines are
>> routinely
>> ignored, which makes things look very unprofessional.
>>
>> So, a conformance checklist is still what I'm after - anyone else?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
>> discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.co
>> m
>> [mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-
>> bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.
>> com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Grubb
>> Sent: 18 August 2004 09:25
>> To: discuss-interactiondesigners.com at lists.interactiondesigners.com
>> Subject: RE: [ID Discuss] Windows UI Compliance Checklist?
>>
>>
>> Try: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?URL=/library/books/
>> winguide/ch
>> 00a.htm
>> "an indispensable guide to designing applications that run with the
>> MicrosoftR WindowsR operating system. More than anything else, the
>> design of
>> your application's interface affects how a user experiences your
>> product.
>> Here you will find recommendations for well-designed Windows-based
>> applications and hundreds of examples of interfaces - both good and
>> bad - to
>> learn from."
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Jonathan Grubb
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: carl.myhill at ps.ge.com
>> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 9:58 PM
>> To: discuss-interactiondesigners.com at lists.interactiondesigners.com
>> Subject: [ID Discuss] Windows UI Compliance Checklist?
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Does anyone know of a checklist for assessing whether a UI has
>> conformed to
>> Microsoft Windows style guidelines? For example, whether dialog text
>> conform
>> to capitalisation standards, etc.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Carl
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>

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