What's the best Computer for Designers?

30 Aug 2007 - 12:51pm
7 years ago
72 replies
11298 reads
Lillian Carrascoza
2007

I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to buy for web design.
I'm hesitant about buying an Apple cause most of my site's users are on PCs...
but I could be talked into it.

I was also thinking to get a laptop for easy mobility, but a desktop could be more suited for the job.

What do you like and dislike about your computer?
What would be your dream computer?

Thank you in advance

Lillian Carrascoza

Comments

31 Aug 2007 - 2:57pm
Rob Nero
2005

I should have been more precise in my email... I was thinking of OS
developers switching teams, and working on the code that creates the
opposite OS. So a Vista developer working on OS X, and vice versa.
:)

________________________________

From: Robert Hoekman, Jr. [mailto:robert at rhjr.net]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:14 PM
To: NERO, ROBERT
Cc: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] What's the best Computer for Designers?

Imagine a Windows developer integrating into a Mac development
team

I've done this.

or a Mac developer joining a Windows development team!

I've done this too.

I used to work in Windows-only shops, but I learned to develop on Mac.
So moving to Windows was tough. But I eventually got so used to
developing on Windows that I had a hard time figuring out how to do all
the same stuff on my Mac at home. There were a few Windows-only tools I
used that I had to compensate for at home.

Now, I don't think I even work with anyone who uses Windows. Even
developers at client companies are on Mac, and everyone on my team is on
Mac. So, you see, that whole Windows thing was just a big distraction.
Things are finally back to normal. :)

-r-

</pre><font face=Arial>This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information of Northwestern Mutual. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail and any attachments is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify Northwestern Mutual immediately by returning it to the sender and delete all copies from your system. Please be advised that communications received via the Northwestern Mutual Secure Message Center are secure. Communications that are not received via the Northwestern Mutual Secure Message Center may not be secure and could be observed by a third party. Thank you for your cooperation.</font><pre>

31 Aug 2007 - 5:04pm
vutpakdi
2003

I'd love to have an Apple version of a Tablet PC (and not the MacBook
slate conversion) because I like the ability to occasionally sketch
electronically. Since Apple does not make one, I use a Fujitsu Lifebook
as a personal laptop for sketching and initial design. I've been very
happy with it. I also use a Dell Lattitude driving two LCDs as my
official "work" computer.

That said, my next home computer purchase probably will be an iMac.

Ron

3 Sep 2007 - 9:51am
Alexis Brion
2007

Well, my sister bought a Dell with Windows Vista and I have been using
it ocassionally. Let me tell you, it does not matter what you want the
computer for, Vista is unuseable.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://beta.ixda.org/discuss?post=19906

4 Sep 2007 - 8:37am
Todd Warfel
2003

There is the notion of you live what you learn. The environment you
work in day-in, day-out, absolutely effects the work you do,
especially as a designer.

Want another parallel real world example. Look no further than
endless covers of supermodels on magazine stands. There have been
countless studies to document this. The argument is that being
surrounded by these images every day influences a woman's self-image,
their expectation of what is normal, of what is expected, and what
they should aim for.

The same thing goes for the environment you're in day-in, day-out.
Being surrounded by it every day... you can't help be be influenced
by it.

On Aug 30, 2007, at 6:42 PM, Christopher Fahey wrote:

> Your computer is, in fact, part of the world around you.
>
> Cheers,
> -Cf

Cheers!

Todd Zaki Warfel
President, Design Researcher
Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
----------------------------------
Contact Info
Voice: (215) 825-7423
Email: todd at messagefirst.com
AIM: twarfel at mac.com
Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
----------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.

4 Sep 2007 - 8:44am
Todd Warfel
2003

Hey Dave, can you give some more detail on this? I've been using dual
monitors on a Mac for a number of years wi/o too many problems.
Admittedly, there's that rare occasion where it goes into mirror mode
when hooking up to a foreign display (typically an old projector that
doesn't support 1024 or higher). So, I can't say it's flawless, but
it works far better for me than the Windows users I've seen hook into
other monitors and projects as it automatically detects the 2nd
screen and adjusts accordingly.

Mac OS sees the 2nd monitor as an extension of the desktop. How does
this differ from your expectation, desire, or need?

On Aug 30, 2007, at 8:27 PM, David Malouf wrote:

> One reason to use Windows is that Windows (believe it or not) is
> FAR superior for multi-monitor support. I LOATHE mac support (or
> lack there of) for multiple monitors. The OS just doesn't really
> consider the 2nd monitor as anything as the video output screen or
> the tools palette's area. Stationary menu at the top is not a model
> that works in multiple or even high resolution monitors ... Just
> ask Fitz!

Cheers!

Todd Zaki Warfel
President, Design Researcher
Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
----------------------------------
Contact Info
Voice: (215) 825-7423
Email: todd at messagefirst.com
AIM: twarfel at mac.com
Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
----------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.

4 Sep 2007 - 8:57am
Todd Warfel
2003

On Aug 30, 2007, at 11:22 PM, Dante Murphy wrote:

> [...] Macs are expensive.

That argument hasn't been true for years. Mac minis start under $600.
You can pick one up and use your existing mouse, keyboard, and
monitor. That's what I've done for my parents (last Christmas). Want
everything, iMacs start at $1199. And you can pick up Mac notebooks
just over $1k.

Now you can try and argue "But I can get a Dell laptop for $600." Uh,
huh. Anyone ever really done that? You start at $600 and by the time
you add software, some ram, a decent HD, you're over $1200. It's
happened to nearly every friend and family member I know that's
purchased a Dell. And then 3 months in, they have to reformat the HD
and reinstall everything.

Either way, cost is relative. Macs and PCs are typically within a
couple hundred bucks of each other. Sometimes Macs are higher,
sometimes PCs are higher.

> Now do I want to lay out considerably more cash to get a Mac just
> to learn the platform? Will I be suitably impressed such that I
> start shelling out even more cash to buy the Mac versions of CS3,
> Omnigraffle, etc.? I can't say it won't happen, but there's a
> significant ROI to consider.

OmniGraffle comes free with the MacBook Pros. CS3? Well, if you have
the Windows version, you can install Windows on your Mac using
Parallels ($79) or Bootcamp (free). Then install all your Windows
software under that if you'd like. This way you'll have the best of
both worlds. You'll get to learn and appreciate the Mac platform at
almost no cost.

> I've never felt that the platform on which I run my tools has
> constrained my ability to design.

And you probably won't until you experience something else. If what
you have works for you, and works well, then there's probably no
reason to switch. But once you experience a Mac, as Christopher said,
you wonder what took you so long.

When people ask me what they'll regret when going to a Mac, my
response is always the same - Just that you didn't do it sooner.

Cheers!

Todd Zaki Warfel
President, Design Researcher
Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
----------------------------------
Contact Info
Voice: (215) 825-7423
Email: todd at messagefirst.com
AIM: twarfel at mac.com
Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
----------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.

4 Sep 2007 - 9:38am
Nasir Barday
2006

Adobe can actually switch your license from Windows to Mac (and vice versa),
according to this blog post from an Adobe person:
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2007/01/yes_cs3_can_be.html

Not sure if it's free, but certainly should make the switch easier.

Hoping and praying for Mac OS X to run (legally) on a Thinkpad ...
- Nasir

On 9/4/07, Todd Zaki Warfel <lists at toddwarfel.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2007, at 11:22 PM, Dante Murphy wrote:
>
> > [...] Macs are expensive.
>
> That argument hasn't been true for years. Mac minis start under $600.
> You can pick one up and use your existing mouse, keyboard, and
> monitor. That's what I've done for my parents (last Christmas). Want
> everything, iMacs start at $1199. And you can pick up Mac notebooks
> just over $1k.
>
> Now you can try and argue "But I can get a Dell laptop for $600." Uh,
> huh. Anyone ever really done that? You start at $600 and by the time
> you add software, some ram, a decent HD, you're over $1200. It's
> happened to nearly every friend and family member I know that's
> purchased a Dell. And then 3 months in, they have to reformat the HD
> and reinstall everything.
>
> Either way, cost is relative. Macs and PCs are typically within a
> couple hundred bucks of each other. Sometimes Macs are higher,
> sometimes PCs are higher.
>
> > Now do I want to lay out considerably more cash to get a Mac just
> > to learn the platform? Will I be suitably impressed such that I
> > start shelling out even more cash to buy the Mac versions of CS3,
> > Omnigraffle, etc.? I can't say it won't happen, but there's a
> > significant ROI to consider.
>
> OmniGraffle comes free with the MacBook Pros. CS3? Well, if you have
> the Windows version, you can install Windows on your Mac using
> Parallels ($79) or Bootcamp (free). Then install all your Windows
> software under that if you'd like. This way you'll have the best of
> both worlds. You'll get to learn and appreciate the Mac platform at
> almost no cost.
>
> > I've never felt that the platform on which I run my tools has
> > constrained my ability to design.
>
> And you probably won't until you experience something else. If what
> you have works for you, and works well, then there's probably no
> reason to switch. But once you experience a Mac, as Christopher said,
> you wonder what took you so long.
>
> When people ask me what they'll regret when going to a Mac, my
> response is always the same - Just that you didn't do it sooner.
>
>
> Cheers!
>
> Todd Zaki Warfel
> President, Design Researcher
> Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
> ----------------------------------
> Contact Info
> Voice: (215) 825-7423
> Email: todd at messagefirst.com
> AIM: twarfel at mac.com
> Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
> ----------------------------------
> In theory, theory and practice are the same.
> In practice, they are not.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

4 Sep 2007 - 9:51am
Dave Malouf
2005

Hi Todd,

Unfortunately, its been a long while since I've been on my MacBook,
but I have remember having a lot of expectations about how
dual-monitor should and could work and they didn't happen. I think in
my "Shift" article on Ok-Cancel I outlined some issues.

The ones I'm scraping my cranium to remember include:
1. Menus are always in the main monitor and not associated with the
application canvas I'm actually working in.
2. Often I would have palettes in the 2ndary window, but when values
had to be set their dropdowns (or other reveal widgets) would appear
in the primary window. (This had a positive effect of me relying on
keyboard commands more.)
3. Moving from dual to single monitor mode often left some application
windows stuck out of the monitor view never to be grabable or viewable
again.

In the end though I felt that less Mac applications (so this isn't
about the OS but about the eco-system of the OS) didn't consider
dual-monitor support at all in their design.

I think there was an issue with maximizing of windows in the 2nd
window not working many times.

Now that being said there are a ton of issues (some similar some
different) with dual monitor support in Windows.

That said, PPT and Keynote on the Mac take much better advantage of
dual monitors than any equivalent Windows version of those
applications.

-- dave

On 9/4/07, Todd Zaki Warfel <lists at toddwarfel.com> wrote:
> Hey Dave, can you give some more detail on this? I've been using dual
> monitors on a Mac for a number of years wi/o too many problems. Admittedly,
> there's that rare occasion where it goes into mirror mode when hooking up to
> a foreign display (typically an old projector that doesn't support 1024 or
> higher). So, I can't say it's flawless, but it works far better for me than
> the Windows users I've seen hook into other monitors and projects as it
> automatically detects the 2nd screen and adjusts accordingly.
>
> Mac OS sees the 2nd monitor as an extension of the desktop. How does this
> differ from your expectation, desire, or need?
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2007, at 8:27 PM, David Malouf wrote:
>
>
> One reason to use Windows is that Windows (believe it or not) is FAR
> superior for multi-monitor support. I LOATHE mac support (or lack there of)
> for multiple monitors. The OS just doesn't really consider the 2nd monitor
> as anything as the video output screen or the tools palette's area.
> Stationary menu at the top is not a model that works in multiple or even
> high resolution monitors ... Just ask Fitz!
>
>
> Cheers!
>
> Todd Zaki Warfel
> President, Design Researcher
> Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
> ----------------------------------
> Contact Info
> Voice: (215) 825-7423
> Email: todd at messagefirst.com
> AIM: twarfel at mac.com
> Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
> ----------------------------------
> In theory, theory and practice are the same.
> In practice, they are not.
>
>
>

--
David Malouf
http://synapticburn.com/
http://ixda.org/
http://motorola.com/

4 Sep 2007 - 10:05am
Nasir Barday
2006

Dante wrote:
>> All of the software I have purchased or acquired through work is for the
windows platform.

CS3 can be crossed over by calling Adobe. You'd have to replace Visio with
OmniGraffle, but according to some, Visio was probably just hurting you
anyway ;-). I've gotten our Product Developers hooked on Visio (much lower
learning curve), so when I switch our team over to the Black Turtleneck, I
will run Visio in a virtual machine.

>> I did recently have to use a Mac when I took a Flash class, and I was
debilitated by the single-button mouse with no scroll wheel.

Apparently you can plug in a two-button mouse and context menus pop up just
fine. I loves me my context menus (when done well, of course).

>> What it really comes down to for me, as I ponder what computer to buy for
home use for my wife, is cost.
There is cost as in beer, and there is cost as in time, pleasure, and
overall feel-goodedness :-).

All this said, I wouldn't feel pressured to make the switch just 'cause all
the cool cats say it's better (in fact, a lot of the cool cats do use
Windows, but let's forget about the cool cats for a sec ...). In the end
it's about using what works for you. If produce good work in Windows, and
working with it doesn't make you crazy, you should stick with Windows. My
sister is a musician and can't stand the Mac. My graphic designer, steeped
in Mac, uses a ThinkPad at the office and hasn't shriveled up and died yet.

Lotsa love, Dante :-)
- Nasir

4 Sep 2007 - 10:15am
James Melzer
2004

To be fair, the Windows ecosystem isn't dual-monitor nirvana either.

MS Office applications routinely throw newly opened toolbars and
dialog boxes into the primary monitor's view despite the location of
their corresponding application elsewhere. And Windows arbitrarily
scatters my desktop icons whenever I add a new one and then undock.

I use a PC at work because I have to, and I curse it nearly every day.
I use a Mac at home because I enjoy it.

~ James

== James Melzer =======
http://www.jamesmelzer.com
http://del.icio.us/jamesmelzer
== Sent on my iPhone ====

On Sep 4, 2007, at 10:51 AM, "David Malouf" <dave at ixda.org> wrote:

> Hi Todd,
>
> Unfortunately, its been a long while since I've been on my MacBook,
> but I have remember having a lot of expectations about how
> dual-monitor should and could work and they didn't happen. I think in
> my "Shift" article on Ok-Cancel I outlined some issues.
>
> The ones I'm scraping my cranium to remember include:
> 1. Menus are always in the main monitor and not associated with the
> application canvas I'm actually working in.
> 2. Often I would have palettes in the 2ndary window, but when values
> had to be set their dropdowns (or other reveal widgets) would appear
> in the primary window. (This had a positive effect of me relying on
> keyboard commands more.)
> 3. Moving from dual to single monitor mode often left some application
> windows stuck out of the monitor view never to be grabable or viewable
> again.
>
> In the end though I felt that less Mac applications (so this isn't
> about the OS but about the eco-system of the OS) didn't consider
> dual-monitor support at all in their design.
>
> I think there was an issue with maximizing of windows in the 2nd
> window not working many times.
>
> Now that being said there are a ton of issues (some similar some
> different) with dual monitor support in Windows.
>
> That said, PPT and Keynote on the Mac take much better advantage of
> dual monitors than any equivalent Windows version of those
> applications.
>
> -- dave
>
>
> On 9/4/07, Todd Zaki Warfel <lists at toddwarfel.com> wrote:
>> Hey Dave, can you give some more detail on this? I've been using dual
>> monitors on a Mac for a number of years wi/o too many problems.
>> Admittedly,
>> there's that rare occasion where it goes into mirror mode when
>> hooking up to
>> a foreign display (typically an old projector that doesn't support
>> 1024 or
>> higher). So, I can't say it's flawless, but it works far better for
>> me than
>> the Windows users I've seen hook into other monitors and projects
>> as it
>> automatically detects the 2nd screen and adjusts accordingly.
>>
>> Mac OS sees the 2nd monitor as an extension of the desktop. How
>> does this
>> differ from your expectation, desire, or need?
>>
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2007, at 8:27 PM, David Malouf wrote:
>>
>>
>> One reason to use Windows is that Windows (believe it or not) is FAR
>> superior for multi-monitor support. I LOATHE mac support (or lack
>> there of)
>> for multiple monitors. The OS just doesn't really consider the 2nd
>> monitor
>> as anything as the video output screen or the tools palette's area.
>> Stationary menu at the top is not a model that works in multiple or
>> even
>> high resolution monitors ... Just ask Fitz!
>>
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Todd Zaki Warfel
>> President, Design Researcher
>> Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
>> ----------------------------------
>> Contact Info
>> Voice: (215) 825-7423
>> Email: todd at messagefirst.com
>> AIM: twarfel at mac.com
>> Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
>> ----------------------------------
>> In theory, theory and practice are the same.
>> In practice, they are not.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> David Malouf
> http://synapticburn.com/
> http://ixda.org/
> http://motorola.com/
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

4 Sep 2007 - 10:27am
Becubed
2004

> Apparently you can plug in a two-button mouse and context menus pop up

True. AFAIK, any USB or Bluetooth mouse will plug & play on Macs.

In fact, I'm just about to click "Send" using a Logitech Bluetooth PC mouse
on my MacBook Pro. Here goes...

--
Robert Barlow-Busch
Terapath Inc.
bbb at terapath.net

4 Sep 2007 - 10:29am
Nasir Barday
2006

I don't know about OS X, but Windows was never truly updated to be a mobile
OS. My biggest beef is with switching between display profiles (at desk
driving two external LCDs, standalone in a meeting, mirroring to a large
screen, presenting with secondary presenter's display). If I go standalone
without undocking properly, the windows on my secondary display don't come
to the primary screen.

On the other hand, I have a few issues with the Macbook's hardware:
- Where is the dock? Seems like moving from my desk's keyboard/mouse/dual
lcd setup would be pain
- Can a Macbook drive two external LCDs simultaneously?

- Nasir

On 9/4/07, James Melzer <jamesmelzer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> To be fair, the Windows ecosystem isn't dual-monitor nirvana either.
>
> MS Office applications routinely throw newly opened toolbars and
> dialog boxes into the primary monitor's view despite the location of
> their corresponding application elsewhere. And Windows arbitrarily
> scatters my desktop icons whenever I add a new one and then undock.
>
> I use a PC at work because I have to, and I curse it nearly every day.
> I use a Mac at home because I enjoy it.
>
> ~ James
>
> == James Melzer =======
> http://www.jamesmelzer.com
> http://del.icio.us/jamesmelzer
> == Sent on my iPhone ====
>
> On Sep 4, 2007, at 10:51 AM, "David Malouf" <dave at ixda.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Todd,
> >
> > Unfortunately, its been a long while since I've been on my MacBook,
> > but I have remember having a lot of expectations about how
> > dual-monitor should and could work and they didn't happen. I think in
> > my "Shift" article on Ok-Cancel I outlined some issues.
> >
> > The ones I'm scraping my cranium to remember include:
> > 1. Menus are always in the main monitor and not associated with the
> > application canvas I'm actually working in.
> > 2. Often I would have palettes in the 2ndary window, but when values
> > had to be set their dropdowns (or other reveal widgets) would appear
> > in the primary window. (This had a positive effect of me relying on
> > keyboard commands more.)
> > 3. Moving from dual to single monitor mode often left some application
> > windows stuck out of the monitor view never to be grabable or viewable
> > again.
> >
> > In the end though I felt that less Mac applications (so this isn't
> > about the OS but about the eco-system of the OS) didn't consider
> > dual-monitor support at all in their design.
> >
> > I think there was an issue with maximizing of windows in the 2nd
> > window not working many times.
> >
> > Now that being said there are a ton of issues (some similar some
> > different) with dual monitor support in Windows.
> >
> > That said, PPT and Keynote on the Mac take much better advantage of
> > dual monitors than any equivalent Windows version of those
> > applications.
> >
> > -- dave
> >
> >
> > On 9/4/07, Todd Zaki Warfel <lists at toddwarfel.com> wrote:
> >> Hey Dave, can you give some more detail on this? I've been using dual
> >> monitors on a Mac for a number of years wi/o too many problems.
> >> Admittedly,
> >> there's that rare occasion where it goes into mirror mode when
> >> hooking up to
> >> a foreign display (typically an old projector that doesn't support
> >> 1024 or
> >> higher). So, I can't say it's flawless, but it works far better for
> >> me than
> >> the Windows users I've seen hook into other monitors and projects
> >> as it
> >> automatically detects the 2nd screen and adjusts accordingly.
> >>
> >> Mac OS sees the 2nd monitor as an extension of the desktop. How
> >> does this
> >> differ from your expectation, desire, or need?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Aug 30, 2007, at 8:27 PM, David Malouf wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> One reason to use Windows is that Windows (believe it or not) is FAR
> >> superior for multi-monitor support. I LOATHE mac support (or lack
> >> there of)
> >> for multiple monitors. The OS just doesn't really consider the 2nd
> >> monitor
> >> as anything as the video output screen or the tools palette's area.
> >> Stationary menu at the top is not a model that works in multiple or
> >> even
> >> high resolution monitors ... Just ask Fitz!
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers!
> >>
> >> Todd Zaki Warfel
> >> President, Design Researcher
> >> Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
> >> ----------------------------------
> >> Contact Info
> >> Voice: (215) 825-7423
> >> Email: todd at messagefirst.com
> >> AIM: twarfel at mac.com
> >> Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
> >> ----------------------------------
> >> In theory, theory and practice are the same.
> >> In practice, they are not.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Malouf
> > http://synapticburn.com/
> > http://ixda.org/
> > http://motorola.com/
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

4 Sep 2007 - 10:39am
Dave Malouf
2005

Oh!

Let me be clear. If I had my choice (and I don't) I would buy a Mac
for work. The reason I have one at home is b/c of the added investment
in software. But I think I've had it. Next PC (in about 2 years) is
going to be a Mac for home almost guaranteed. If I could scam one for
work I would almost immediately.

I was only asked to clarify what I meant.

I think Parallels makes buying a PC almost silly these days. Well
except for the cheaper cost of the hardware. I mean for home use I
could get a laptop for under $800 if I wanted to. And if I REALLY
wanted a tabletPC that might turn my hand a bit too. UMPC might too.

-- dave

On 9/4/07, James Melzer <jamesmelzer at gmail.com> wrote:
> To be fair, the Windows ecosystem isn't dual-monitor nirvana either.
>
> MS Office applications routinely throw newly opened toolbars and
> dialog boxes into the primary monitor's view despite the location of
> their corresponding application elsewhere. And Windows arbitrarily
> scatters my desktop icons whenever I add a new one and then undock.
>
> I use a PC at work because I have to, and I curse it nearly every day.
> I use a Mac at home because I enjoy it.
>
> ~ James
>
> == James Melzer =======
> http://www.jamesmelzer.com
> http://del.icio.us/jamesmelzer
> == Sent on my iPhone ====
>
> On Sep 4, 2007, at 10:51 AM, "David Malouf" <dave at ixda.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Todd,
> >
> > Unfortunately, its been a long while since I've been on my MacBook,
> > but I have remember having a lot of expectations about how
> > dual-monitor should and could work and they didn't happen. I think in
> > my "Shift" article on Ok-Cancel I outlined some issues.
> >
> > The ones I'm scraping my cranium to remember include:
> > 1. Menus are always in the main monitor and not associated with the
> > application canvas I'm actually working in.
> > 2. Often I would have palettes in the 2ndary window, but when values
> > had to be set their dropdowns (or other reveal widgets) would appear
> > in the primary window. (This had a positive effect of me relying on
> > keyboard commands more.)
> > 3. Moving from dual to single monitor mode often left some application
> > windows stuck out of the monitor view never to be grabable or viewable
> > again.
> >
> > In the end though I felt that less Mac applications (so this isn't
> > about the OS but about the eco-system of the OS) didn't consider
> > dual-monitor support at all in their design.
> >
> > I think there was an issue with maximizing of windows in the 2nd
> > window not working many times.
> >
> > Now that being said there are a ton of issues (some similar some
> > different) with dual monitor support in Windows.
> >
> > That said, PPT and Keynote on the Mac take much better advantage of
> > dual monitors than any equivalent Windows version of those
> > applications.
> >
> > -- dave
> >
> >
> > On 9/4/07, Todd Zaki Warfel <lists at toddwarfel.com> wrote:
> >> Hey Dave, can you give some more detail on this? I've been using dual
> >> monitors on a Mac for a number of years wi/o too many problems.
> >> Admittedly,
> >> there's that rare occasion where it goes into mirror mode when
> >> hooking up to
> >> a foreign display (typically an old projector that doesn't support
> >> 1024 or
> >> higher). So, I can't say it's flawless, but it works far better for
> >> me than
> >> the Windows users I've seen hook into other monitors and projects
> >> as it
> >> automatically detects the 2nd screen and adjusts accordingly.
> >>
> >> Mac OS sees the 2nd monitor as an extension of the desktop. How
> >> does this
> >> differ from your expectation, desire, or need?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Aug 30, 2007, at 8:27 PM, David Malouf wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> One reason to use Windows is that Windows (believe it or not) is FAR
> >> superior for multi-monitor support. I LOATHE mac support (or lack
> >> there of)
> >> for multiple monitors. The OS just doesn't really consider the 2nd
> >> monitor
> >> as anything as the video output screen or the tools palette's area.
> >> Stationary menu at the top is not a model that works in multiple or
> >> even
> >> high resolution monitors ... Just ask Fitz!
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers!
> >>
> >> Todd Zaki Warfel
> >> President, Design Researcher
> >> Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
> >> ----------------------------------
> >> Contact Info
> >> Voice: (215) 825-7423
> >> Email: todd at messagefirst.com
> >> AIM: twarfel at mac.com
> >> Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
> >> ----------------------------------
> >> In theory, theory and practice are the same.
> >> In practice, they are not.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Malouf
> > http://synapticburn.com/
> > http://ixda.org/
> > http://motorola.com/
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

--
David Malouf
http://synapticburn.com/
http://ixda.org/
http://motorola.com/

4 Sep 2007 - 10:40am
Dave Malouf
2005

Nasir, this is not an OS issue, but a BIOS issue. Please consult your
Hardware manufacturer. ;)

-- dave

On 9/4/07, Nasir Barday <nasir at userlicious.com> wrote:
> I don't know about OS X, but Windows was never truly updated to be a mobile
> OS. My biggest beef is with switching between display profiles (at desk
> driving two external LCDs, standalone in a meeting, mirroring to a large
> screen, presenting with secondary presenter's display). If I go standalone
> without undocking properly, the windows on my secondary display don't come
> to the primary screen.
>
> On the other hand, I have a few issues with the Macbook's hardware:
> - Where is the dock? Seems like moving from my desk's keyboard/mouse/dual
> lcd setup would be pain
> - Can a Macbook drive two external LCDs simultaneously?
>
> - Nasir
>
>
>
> On 9/4/07, James Melzer <jamesmelzer at gmail.com> wrote:
> > To be fair, the Windows ecosystem isn't dual-monitor nirvana either.
> >
> > MS Office applications routinely throw newly opened toolbars and
> > dialog boxes into the primary monitor's view despite the location of
> > their corresponding application elsewhere. And Windows arbitrarily
> > scatters my desktop icons whenever I add a new one and then undock.
> >
> > I use a PC at work because I have to, and I curse it nearly every day.
> > I use a Mac at home because I enjoy it.
> >
> > ~ James
> >
> > == James Melzer =======
> > http://www.jamesmelzer.com
> > http://del.icio.us/jamesmelzer
> > == Sent on my iPhone ====
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2007, at 10:51 AM, "David Malouf" <dave at ixda.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Todd,
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, its been a long while since I've been on my MacBook,
> > > but I have remember having a lot of expectations about how
> > > dual-monitor should and could work and they didn't happen. I think in
> > > my "Shift" article on Ok-Cancel I outlined some issues.
> > >
> > > The ones I'm scraping my cranium to remember include:
> > > 1. Menus are always in the main monitor and not associated with the
> > > application canvas I'm actually working in.
> > > 2. Often I would have palettes in the 2ndary window, but when values
> > > had to be set their dropdowns (or other reveal widgets) would appear
> > > in the primary window. (This had a positive effect of me relying on
> > > keyboard commands more.)
> > > 3. Moving from dual to single monitor mode often left some application
> > > windows stuck out of the monitor view never to be grabable or viewable
> > > again.
> > >
> > > In the end though I felt that less Mac applications (so this isn't
> > > about the OS but about the eco-system of the OS) didn't consider
> > > dual-monitor support at all in their design.
> > >
> > > I think there was an issue with maximizing of windows in the 2nd
> > > window not working many times.
> > >
> > > Now that being said there are a ton of issues (some similar some
> > > different) with dual monitor support in Windows.
> > >
> > > That said, PPT and Keynote on the Mac take much better advantage of
> > > dual monitors than any equivalent Windows version of those
> > > applications.
> > >
> > > -- dave
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/4/07, Todd Zaki Warfel <lists at toddwarfel.com> wrote:
> > >> Hey Dave, can you give some more detail on this? I've been using dual
> > >> monitors on a Mac for a number of years wi/o too many problems.
> > >> Admittedly,
> > >> there's that rare occasion where it goes into mirror mode when
> > >> hooking up to
> > >> a foreign display (typically an old projector that doesn't support
> > >> 1024 or
> > >> higher). So, I can't say it's flawless, but it works far better for
> > >> me than
> > >> the Windows users I've seen hook into other monitors and projects
> > >> as it
> > >> automatically detects the 2nd screen and adjusts accordingly.
> > >>
> > >> Mac OS sees the 2nd monitor as an extension of the desktop. How
> > >> does this
> > >> differ from your expectation, desire, or need?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Aug 30, 2007, at 8:27 PM, David Malouf wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> One reason to use Windows is that Windows (believe it or not) is FAR
> > >> superior for multi-monitor support. I LOATHE mac support (or lack
> > >> there of)
> > >> for multiple monitors. The OS just doesn't really consider the 2nd
> > >> monitor
> > >> as anything as the video output screen or the tools palette's area.
> > >> Stationary menu at the top is not a model that works in multiple or
> > >> even
> > >> high resolution monitors ... Just ask Fitz!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Cheers!
> > >>
> > >> Todd Zaki Warfel
> > >> President, Design Researcher
> > >> Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
> > >> ----------------------------------
> > >> Contact Info
> > >> Voice: (215) 825-7423
> > >> Email: todd at messagefirst.com
> > >> AIM: twarfel at mac.com
> > >> Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
> > >> ----------------------------------
> > >> In theory, theory and practice are the same.
> > >> In practice, they are not.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > David Malouf
> > > http://synapticburn.com/
> > > http://ixda.org/
> > > http://motorola.com/
> > >
> ________________________________________________________________
> > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > > Unsubscribe ................
> http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................
> http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> >
>
>

--
David Malouf
http://synapticburn.com/
http://ixda.org/
http://motorola.com/

4 Sep 2007 - 10:49am
Nasir Barday
2006

On 9/4/07, David Malouf <dave at ixda.org> wrote:
>
> Nasir, this is not an OS issue, but a BIOS issue. Please consult your
> Hardware manufacturer. ;)

Ha, noted. But I have yet to use a PC notebook in which I went from
dual-display mode to single mode properly. Even when the machine knows it
has only one display and kills off the external port, Windows still keeps
apps and things on the outside display.

Our team got outfitted with blazin' new Thinkpads this year, but the next
upgrade will def. be to Macbooks-- cheaper than Thinkpads. But it would be
totally sweet if Apple would release their OS to even just the Thinkpad. You
can step on/drop/play frisbee with these things and they don't even blink.
Not that I've tried doing any of that. Well, at least not the third one ...

- Nasir

4 Sep 2007 - 11:04am
Dave Malouf
2005

I have had my best success with Sony laptops when it comes to Dual
Monitor support but that was a long time ago.

They do not pass the frisbee test however.
Toshiba Tablets are also really darn good as well, IMHO.

Nothing beats the keyboard of a ThinkPad!!!

Which is interesting. It seems that we have all concentrated on the
software of the products we have spoken about. What about hardware? I
mentioned a little bit of form-factor issues like Tablet or UMPC, but
what about other hardware issues?

A lot of PC laptops have features for roadwarriors that Mac's don't
like dual-battery (swap w/ disk) support, multi-monitor type cable
support (no dongle necessary), DVD & music w/o startup play (if you're
into that). More variety of monitor sizes and resolution capabilities,
memory card slots, etc. etc.

I realize these aren't big issues for many, but there is only 1 Apple
and there are a gazillion PC makers. Finally PC makers have tremendous
services around Enterprise support (another part of the eco-system)
that many of those buying hardware have to think about (no necessarily
the users).

-- dave

On 9/4/07, Nasir Barday <nasir at userlicious.com> wrote:
> On 9/4/07, David Malouf <dave at ixda.org> wrote:
> > Nasir, this is not an OS issue, but a BIOS issue. Please consult your
> > Hardware manufacturer. ;)
>
> Ha, noted. But I have yet to use a PC notebook in which I went from
> dual-display mode to single mode properly. Even when the machine knows it
> has only one display and kills off the external port, Windows still keeps
> apps and things on the outside display.
>
> Our team got outfitted with blazin' new Thinkpads this year, but the next
> upgrade will def. be to Macbooks-- cheaper than Thinkpads. But it would be
> totally sweet if Apple would release their OS to even just the Thinkpad. You
> can step on/drop/play frisbee with these things and they don't even blink.
> Not that I've tried doing any of that. Well, at least not the third one ...
>
> - Nasir
>
>

--
David Malouf
http://synapticburn.com/
http://ixda.org/
http://motorola.com/

4 Sep 2007 - 12:14pm
.pauric
2006

Dave, "A lot of PC laptops have features for roadwarriors that Mac's
don't like dual-battery (swap w/ disk)..

My g5, and I assume the newer books do as well, contain a reserve
battery.

You can close the lid, swap battery, and open as if nothing happened.

This in itself is not ixda newsworthy, however the shear delight in
discovering this (I dont RTFM) was just more gravy on the mac
experience.

When you experience an instance that clearly demonstrates someone
thought about how -you- would use the product, it makes you
appreciate the product even more.

When you hit a silly & frustrating gotcha it detracts from the
overall experience, as Leisa discusses here
http://www.disambiguity.com/dialogue-boxes-making-simple-things-simple/

Apple currently does a better job at the former than any other OS or
PC manufacturer

On the multimonitor cable support issue. I think its worth noting a
lot of people use Apple laptops as media centers, plugging in to a
TV. Thats a strong use case for not shipping with just a computer
monitor d-Type.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the improved ixda.org
http://beta.ixda.org/discuss?post=19906

4 Sep 2007 - 1:54pm
Dave Malouf
2005

I'm sorry, I think I used the wrong term. I don't mean swappable the
way you described. I mean having 2 batteries on board at once. The
swappable part is referring to the ability to swap out a removable
media drive for the extra battery.

My bad.

-- dave

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the improved ixda.org
http://beta.ixda.org/discuss?post=19906

5 Sep 2007 - 8:47am
Todd Warfel
2003

I use a 23" display with my MBP. The 23" is the primary display and
my MBP is the secondary display (running email). I come in every
morning, plug in the magnetic power plug, a DVI connector and a FW/
USB cable. Four cables. Sounds like a lot, but takes me less than 10
seconds each morning. While it could be better, it's good enough for
me and a small sacrifice to be on the Mac platform.

On Sep 4, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Nasir Barday wrote:

> - Where is the dock? Seems like moving from my desk's keyboard/
> mouse/dual
> lcd setup would be pain
> - Can a Macbook drive two external LCDs simultaneously?

Cheers!

Todd Zaki Warfel
President, Design Researcher
Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
----------------------------------
Contact Info
Voice: (215) 825-7423
Email: todd at messagefirst.com
AIM: twarfel at mac.com
Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
----------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.

5 Sep 2007 - 8:55am
Todd Warfel
2003

On Sep 4, 2007, at 10:51 AM, David Malouf wrote:

> The ones I'm scraping my cranium to remember include:
> 1. Menus are always in the main monitor and not associated with the
> application canvas I'm actually working in.

This is true. I'm a bit of a keyboard monger. So, this is less an
issue for me, but would be an issue for most Windows users I know who
migrate. Over the years, I've noticed Windows users tend to be more
mouse driven, less keyboard shortcut driven. I think there are a
number of reasons for this. But if you're mouse or menu driven, then
this is an issue.

> 2. Often I would have palettes in the 2ndary window, but when
> values had to be set their dropdowns (or other reveal widgets)
> would appear in the primary window. (This had a positive effect of
> me relying on keyboard commands more.)

Not sure about this one. I think I'd need more context to know what
you're talking about here.

> 3. Moving from dual to single monitor mode often left some
> application windows stuck out of the monitor view never to be
> grabable or viewable again.

True as well. This is the most annoying thing for me. Doesn't happen
that often. But the couple of times a year it does happen is
frustrating enough.

> In the end though I felt that less Mac applications (so this isn't
> about the OS but about the eco-system of the OS) didn't consider
> dual-monitor support at all in their design.

Hope this gets better over time as developers start to see the
increase in dual monitor use.

> That said, PPT and Keynote on the Mac take much better advantage of
> dual monitors than any equivalent Windows version of those
> applications.

Amen.

Cheers!

Todd Zaki Warfel
President, Design Researcher
Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
----------------------------------
Contact Info
Voice: (215) 825-7423
Email: todd at messagefirst.com
AIM: twarfel at mac.com
Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
----------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.

5 Sep 2007 - 8:45am
Todd Warfel
2003

And they have been for years and years.

We use the Might Mouse. I love that little thing. I can scroll
vertical, horizontal, and even diagonal with that thing. Something
you can't do with other multi-button scroll mice. Now a trackball on
the other hand... But I found my trackball got to mucked up too fast.

On Sep 4, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Robert Barlow-Busch wrote:

> True. AFAIK, any USB or Bluetooth mouse will plug & play on Macs.

Cheers!

Todd Zaki Warfel
President, Design Researcher
Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
----------------------------------
Contact Info
Voice: (215) 825-7423
Email: todd at messagefirst.com
AIM: twarfel at mac.com
Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
----------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.

12 Sep 2007 - 12:03am
cfmdesigns
2004

On Aug 30, 2007, at 5:27 PM, David Malouf wrote:

> My only remaining issue with Mac is why in the world haven't you
> made a really good Tablet MacOS? Or a UMPC? These solutions run on
> crummy Windows Vista at this point and are really yucky. Your help
> would be appreciated for those of us who REALLY love these niche form
> factors.

Niche would be the reason. Tablets are probably 1% of the laptop
market, and UMPC's are 0.1%. (Pure imaginary numbers, there.) Even
though Mac has like 15% of the laptop market (to pull another number
out of the air; more that of the desktop market is all I recall for
sure), you're talking 0.15% as tablets. (Okay, the Mac Faithful
alone would snap up that many. There's probably easily double the
market for a Mac tablet as for a Windows one.) Whatever the numbers,
it's tiny vs. a lot of work to do it. (And remember that Apple does
the kit plus the kaboodle, so there's a *lot* more work involved.)

Okay, the real reason? Steve Jobs hasn't said to do one yet. (Which
largely but not completely circles back to the tiny niche thing.)

-- Jim Drew
cfmdesigns at earthlink.net
http://www.soundskinky.com/blog/

Syndicate content Get the feed