What's the best Computer for Designers?

30 Aug 2007 - 11:51am
7 years ago
72 replies
11414 reads
Lillian Carrascoza
2007

I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to buy for web design.
I'm hesitant about buying an Apple cause most of my site's users are on PCs...
but I could be talked into it.

I was also thinking to get a laptop for easy mobility, but a desktop could be more suited for the job.

What do you like and dislike about your computer?
What would be your dream computer?

Thank you in advance

Lillian Carrascoza

Comments

30 Aug 2007 - 12:54pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to buy for web
> design.

The best and most usable system is the one you already know. The best system
is also the same one used by the guy you call for tech support at 2am before
a deadline.

Kidding aside, it's really up to you. Many, many designers (including
myself) swear by Macs, but floating panels, honestly, kinda drive me batty.
I can live with this, though, because pretty much everything about Windows
drives me batty.

-r-

30 Aug 2007 - 1:02pm
Mark Schraad
2006

I am always surprised that anyone appreciative of what we IxD'ers do (much less the designers themselves) would prefer a Windows system. But as Robert says, what is home and what you are used to matter more. Many people prefer the windows. If you have the bucks, buy a Mac and run parallels with windows. That way you have both systems.

Mark

On Thursday, August 30, 2007, at 02:43PM, <lcarrascoza at comcast.net> wrote:
>I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to buy for web design.
>I'm hesitant about buying an Apple cause most of my site's users are on PCs...
>but I could be talked into it.
>
>I was also thinking to get a laptop for easy mobility, but a desktop could be more suited for the job.
>
>What do you like and dislike about your computer?
>What would be your dream computer?
>
>Thank you in advance
>
>Lillian Carrascoza

30 Aug 2007 - 1:04pm
Joseph Selbie
2007

I'm not sure it really makes any difference these days -- unless you know of
a particular software tool that runs only on one platform or the other that
is crucial to your work. Otherwise, I'd go with what you know, are
comfortable with, or think you might like to learn.

I've run a mixed shop for years and while there are always conversations
about which platform is superior, I never saw that the actual work couldn't
be done on either.

Joseph Selbie
Founder, CEO Tristream
Http://www.tristream.com

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
lcarrascoza at comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:51 AM
To: IxDA
Subject: [IxDA Discuss] What's the best Computer for Designers?

I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to buy for web
design.
I'm hesitant about buying an Apple cause most of my site's users are on
PCs...
but I could be talked into it.

I was also thinking to get a laptop for easy mobility, but a desktop could
be more suited for the job.

What do you like and dislike about your computer?
What would be your dream computer?

Thank you in advance

Lillian Carrascoza
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
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30 Aug 2007 - 1:16pm
mtumi
2004

I'm also a mac fan.

At this point, I'd have to say (with my known bias stated above) that
I don't understand why you wouldn't buy an intel mac so you could run
both, unless you are fairly certain that you won't be doing any work
that you'll need to see on a mac, and that you'll have a mac
available to you when you do need to check your work on that platform.

Actually, if you know you're going to a job where there will be
little to no acceptance of macs, then that would be a good reason.
I'd say there are whole industry sectors where that is the case,
unfortunately. You could also just put tape over the apple and tell
them it's unix (which it is). :-)

MT

On Aug 30, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Joseph Selbie wrote:

> I'm not sure it really makes any difference these days -- unless
> you know of
> a particular software tool that runs only on one platform or the
> other that
> is crucial to your work. Otherwise, I'd go with what you know, are
> comfortable with, or think you might like to learn.
>
> I've run a mixed shop for years and while there are always
> conversations
> about which platform is superior, I never saw that the actual work
> couldn't
> be done on either.
>
> Joseph Selbie
> Founder, CEO Tristream
> Http://www.tristream.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
> lcarrascoza at comcast.net
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:51 AM
> To: IxDA
> Subject: [IxDA Discuss] What's the best Computer for Designers?
>
> I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to buy
> for web
> design.
> I'm hesitant about buying an Apple cause most of my site's users
> are on
> PCs...
> but I could be talked into it.
>
> I was also thinking to get a laptop for easy mobility, but a
> desktop could
> be more suited for the job.
>
> What do you like and dislike about your computer?
> What would be your dream computer?
>
> Thank you in advance
>
> Lillian Carrascoza
>

30 Aug 2007 - 1:24pm
.pauric
2006

of the ubuntu/xp/osx machines on my desk I have no preference from a
'web design' perspective. Specifically, tools like dreamweaver &
fireworks are basically the same on pc/mac. Although once you go mac
you wont go back, I keep the xp machine for testing and get
seriously agitated when I have to use it for any length of time (not
that osx is anywhere near perfect)

I do like the iMac format because of the large screen and a hack
'Screen spanning doctor' that switches back on that 2nd monitor
functionality http://tinyurl.com/2cbqbg

I have a backpack case for the imac and work from home on it.
http://tinyurl.com/255nvc I essentially consider it a 20" portable
computer. Not as handy as a laptop but with the needed grunt for
real development when you have half a dozen apps open.

I truly abhor working on mac laptops for any length of time, I find
the hard 90 degree edge of the keyboard area chaffs my wrists. I
have a preference for Thinkpads, that run osx (o;
http://www.osx86project.org/

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the improved ixda.org
http://beta.ixda.org/discuss?post=19906

30 Aug 2007 - 1:33pm
Wendy Fischer
2004

I'm a windows user.

Personally, particularly if you are doing software design (not web design) I think it makes sense to have a windows machine, and not a mac. Many of the software products (not web pages) interaction designers design are Windows based, and I think a designer should be familiar with how windows works and design in the same environment if possible.

It's nice to have both (i'm currently contemplating a minimac to play with) . If you are doing web design, I'd recommend both, particularly if you prefer mac.

I personally am a windows user because I just ended up always working for companies that used windows. When I bought my first computer, it made sense to get windows because that's what my university was on. Also, I use Microsoft products in my job - particularly Microsoft Visio, something I can't use on a mac. Whatever you buy, just make sure you are going to stick with, because you'll make a big investment in software and equipment. If you switch over to another platform, you'll have to make the same investment over again.

-Wendy

Mark Schraad <mschraad at mac.com> wrote: I am always surprised that anyone appreciative of what we IxD'ers do (much less the designers themselves) would prefer a Windows system. But as Robert says, what is home and what you are used to matter more. Many people prefer the windows. If you have the bucks, buy a Mac and run parallels with windows. That way you have both systems.

Mark

On Thursday, August 30, 2007, at 02:43PM, wrote:
>I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to buy for web design.
>I'm hesitant about buying an Apple cause most of my site's users are on PCs...
>but I could be talked into it.
>
>I was also thinking to get a laptop for easy mobility, but a desktop could be more suited for the job.
>
>What do you like and dislike about your computer?
>What would be your dream computer?
>
>Thank you in advance
>
>Lillian Carrascoza
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
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30 Aug 2007 - 1:08pm
Douglas Brashear
2007

I can't wait to hear the responses on this one! I think the right
hardware is key for this job.

My own thoughts: many of us probably find ourselves on client sites
regularly, and possibly having to print and/or run projectors from our
machines. With a Windows machine I've never had a problem connecting to
client peripherals (e.g. no need for special cable adaptors).

Also, when working as part of a client-side team, compatibility with the
applications they use is paramount...not an issue these days with Macs
running Windows apps, but the days of trying to open converted
OmniGraffle files in Visio jaded me.

After lugging around this machine for a while now I'd certainly
appreciate something lighter, and could probably make do with an overall
smaller machine (including the screen, since at the home office we have
external flatscreens available).

I'd also consider durability. Our company issues us Sony Vaio laptops,
which tend to have nice specifications and wide screens, but IMO Sony's
aren't known for durability (my experience with Dell laptops as well).
IBM laptops always represented the pinnacle of durability (aside from
specially built machines like the Tough Book, designed for abuse from
Day 1). Mac laptops seem very well made, and the only issues I've seen
on friends' Macs seem minor (panel cracks, etc.).

A built-in camera may help to ease geographically remote work situations
where collaboration is involved.

Good topic!

- Doug :-)

_________________________
Doug Brashear
Senior Information Architect
NavigationArts, LLC
703.584.8933 (office)
703.725.8031 (mobile)
dbrashear at navigationarts.com

30 Aug 2007 - 1:25pm
bminihan
2007

I get this question a lot (mostly developers, but also designers, plus parents). The best computer is the one that gives you the room to do what you need, without having to worry about running out of space - hard drive, memory, screen real estate, and the one that helps to be effective in what you're doing. I'd rather have a Mac/Windows mix (as someone noted), but I'm comfortable with design and lean on Mac friends to make sure I'm not building crazy-quilts in Safari.

Personally, I prefer Windows XP, but a) I have a high tolerance for pain, b) I write a lot of code and am comfortable with command-line stuff, and c) Don't have the funds to transfer all my SW to Mac versions. I wouldn't say either is better at all things or does more, and wouldn't mind a Mac. It's the room to grow, that counts.

- Bryan
http://www.bryanminihan.com

---- lcarrascoza at comcast.net wrote:
> I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to buy for web design.
> I'm hesitant about buying an Apple cause most of my site's users are on PCs...
> but I could be talked into it.
>
> I was also thinking to get a laptop for easy mobility, but a desktop could be more suited for the job.
>
> What do you like and dislike about your computer?
> What would be your dream computer?
>
> Thank you in advance
>
> Lillian Carrascoza
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

--

30 Aug 2007 - 1:42pm
Becubed
2004

Fully agree with recent comments from Robert H, Mark, and Joseph. I'll chime
in to reinforce the point that, if you're involved in *coding* websites,
you'll find the Mac more flexible because you can test on both Mac and
Windows browsers from the same machine.

I'm currently using a Macbook Pro 2.33 GHz Intel Core Duo with 2 MB RAM.
With Parallels virtual machine, I run both Mac OS and Windows Vista Ultimate
concurrently on separate monitors with no problems and perfectly acceptable
performance. So I guess my ideal machine would simply be a top-end Macbook
Pro with the RAM and HD maxed out.

--
Robert Barlow-Busch
Terapath Inc.
bbb at terapath.net
blog: www.chopsticker.com

30 Aug 2007 - 1:56pm
Ari
2006

Any fast Intel-based Mac with lots of RAM and either Parallels or VMFusion
to run WIndows virtualized.
this way, you have access to the nice Mac-only tools like Omnigraffle and
your choice of Adobe tools or Windows favs like GUI Studio, Axure and Visio
Pro.

best of both worlds and everything works fast and flawlessly. plus, you get
access to all browsers both OS's support for compatibility-checking.

On 8/30/07, bjminihan at nc.rr.com <bjminihan at nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I get this question a lot (mostly developers, but also designers, plus
> parents). The best computer is the one that gives you the room to do what
> you need, without having to worry about running out of space - hard drive,
> memory, screen real estate, and the one that helps to be effective in what
> you're doing. I'd rather have a Mac/Windows mix (as someone noted), but I'm
> comfortable with design and lean on Mac friends to make sure I'm not
> building crazy-quilts in Safari.
>
> Personally, I prefer Windows XP, but a) I have a high tolerance for pain,
> b) I write a lot of code and am comfortable with command-line stuff, and c)
> Don't have the funds to transfer all my SW to Mac versions. I wouldn't say
> either is better at all things or does more, and wouldn't mind a Mac. It's
> the room to grow, that counts.
>
> - Bryan
> http://www.bryanminihan.com
>
> ---- lcarrascoza at comcast.net wrote:
> > I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to buy for
> web design.
> > I'm hesitant about buying an Apple cause most of my site's users are on
> PCs...
> > but I could be talked into it.
> >
> > I was also thinking to get a laptop for easy mobility, but a desktop
> could be more suited for the job.
> >
> > What do you like and dislike about your computer?
> > What would be your dream computer?
> >
> > Thank you in advance
> >
> > Lillian Carrascoza
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>
> --
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

--
--------------------------------------------------
www.flyingyogi.com
--------------------------------------------------

30 Aug 2007 - 2:04pm
George Schneiderman
2004

I would definitely go with a laptop, with an external monitor for when you are working at your desk (use a dual-monitor setup)--as large as your budget and workspace will reasonably allow.

I am in-house at a mostly-Windows-based software company, and use a Windows laptop. But several other designers here use Macs. I think that as a designer, it pays to be familiar with both "dialects", which is the main reason I bought a Mac has my last home computer.

Also, whatever you go with, get online backup software. I am very pleased with Mozy.com, which is available for both PCs and Macs, and is very cheap for personal use. If you are freelancing you could probably just use a personal account, or look into whether a business account would be more appropriate.

For certain clients, I think that Macs have more design cachet--a Windows laptop may lose you a little upfront design credibility unless you have some other "cool" angle, like a tablet PC.

On the other hand, if you are interfacing with Windows networks a lot, you will still run into occasional glitches on a Mac. It is much better than it used to be. But if you anticipate mostly clients running Window-based networks, with the need to establish VPN connections, then you may save yourself some time and headaches with a Windows machine. But as far as trying out things with different system/browser configurations, you would have a lot more flexibility on a Mac running Bootcamp than you can get on a dedicated Windows system.

--George

-----Original Message-----
>From: lcarrascoza at comcast.net
>Sent: Aug 30, 2007 1:51 PM
>To: IxDA <discuss at ixda.org>
>Subject: [IxDA Discuss] What's the best Computer for Designers?
>
>I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to buy for web design.
>I'm hesitant about buying an Apple cause most of my site's users are on PCs...
>but I could be talked into it.
>
>I was also thinking to get a laptop for easy mobility, but a desktop could be more suited for the job.
>
>What do you like and dislike about your computer?
>What would be your dream computer?
>
>Thank you in advance
>
>Lillian Carrascoza
>________________________________________________________________
>Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
>List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
>Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>Questions .................. list at ixda.org
>Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

30 Aug 2007 - 1:45pm
Vishal Subraman...
2005

I use a MacBook Pro with Parallels (in full screen mode using an
additional external monitor). That way I have both Windows & Mac.

--
-Vishal
http://www.vishaliyer.com

On 8/30/07, Robert Hoekman, Jr. <robert at rhjr.net> wrote:
> > I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to buy for web
> > design.
>
>
> The best and most usable system is the one you already know. The best system
> is also the same one used by the guy you call for tech support at 2am before
> a deadline.
>
> Kidding aside, it's really up to you. Many, many designers (including
> myself) swear by Macs, but floating panels, honestly, kinda drive me batty.
> I can live with this, though, because pretty much everything about Windows
> drives me batty.
>
> -r-
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

30 Aug 2007 - 2:16pm
Kelly Muñiz
2007

Vishal, do you experience performance problems on the Mac when you
have Parallels running? I have 3GB of RAM and find noticeable
degradation of performance in the the Mac when Parallels is running
with Windows.

On Aug 30, 2007, at 12:45 PM, Vishal Iyer wrote:

> I use a MacBook Pro with Parallels (in full screen mode using an
> additional external monitor). That way I have both Windows & Mac.
>
> --
> -Vishal
> http://www.vishaliyer.com
>
> On 8/30/07, Robert Hoekman, Jr. <robert at rhjr.net> wrote:
>>> I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to
>>> buy for web
>>> design.
>>
>>
>> The best and most usable system is the one you already know. The
>> best system
>> is also the same one used by the guy you call for tech support at
>> 2am before
>> a deadline.
>>
>> Kidding aside, it's really up to you. Many, many designers (including
>> myself) swear by Macs, but floating panels, honestly, kinda drive
>> me batty.
>> I can live with this, though, because pretty much everything about
>> Windows
>> drives me batty.
>>
>> -r-
>> ________________________________________________________________
>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
>> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
>> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
>> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

30 Aug 2007 - 1:40pm
Ty Hatch
2007

Get a MacBook Pro and run Parallels. That way when you get around to
testing, you have everything you need right there and you're not left
guessing what it looks like in a particular browser. There's some
great tools for design on Macs too, in addition to Adobe's apps: Coda
(http://www.panic.com/coda) and CSSEdit (http://www.cssedit.com)
spring to mind for coding stuff.

I'm sure others have their reasons for picking a particular platform,
but for me being on a Mac it just works and lets me do my work. I
don't have to worry about having the proper drivers installed for
this or that mouse/keyboard/mobile device.

-ty

On Aug 30, 2007, at 2:04 PM, Joseph Selbie wrote:

I'm not sure it really makes any difference these days -- unless you
know of
a particular software tool that runs only on one platform or the
other that
is crucial to your work. Otherwise, I'd go with what you know, are
comfortable with, or think you might like to learn.

I've run a mixed shop for years and while there are always conversations
about which platform is superior, I never saw that the actual work
couldn't
be done on either.

Joseph Selbie
Founder, CEO Tristream
Http://www.tristream.com

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
lcarrascoza at comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:51 AM
To: IxDA
Subject: [IxDA Discuss] What's the best Computer for Designers?

I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to buy
for web
design.
I'm hesitant about buying an Apple cause most of my site's users are on
PCs...
but I could be talked into it.

I was also thinking to get a laptop for easy mobility, but a desktop
could
be more suited for the job.

What do you like and dislike about your computer?
What would be your dream computer?

Thank you in advance

Lillian Carrascoza
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
Questions .................. list at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
Questions .................. list at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

30 Aug 2007 - 2:36pm
Christopher Fahey
2005

I've just recently switched from a PC to a Mac, after 13 years of
Windows use. I'm smacking myself every day for being so stupid and
waiting so long. I'm just getting started on a blog series about how
stupid I've been and about how much better the Mac experience is, here:
http://tinyurl.com/2am9kf

The idea that using Windows gives you empathy for your users may have
some merit, but I'd venture to say that the idiosyncrasies in your
own Windows usage -- and your probably high-level of expertise --
makes your computer usage so fundamentally different from that of
your users that it's probably a trivial advantage.

I'll be writing more about it later, but I'll say here that for me
the Mac offers so much in the way of *inspiration* for good user
interface design. As one simple example, almost no Preferences dialog
boxes have "OK" or "Apply" buttons -- all your changes take effect
instantly. You never see this in any Windows apps, but if you really
think about it this sort of behavior should be fundamental to almost
all applications. The only reason Windows apps don't do this is dumb
inertia.

Also, Mac app designs tend to hide or leave off obscure and useless
features far more than Windows apps do, something that you don't
notice until you've had all of that useless crap cleared away. The
Mac is basically full of behaviors and designs that inspire user
interface innovation, while Windows (and I've not tried Vista yet)
tends to be full of conventions that should have been scrapped
decades ago (the ".." indicator for browsing up a directory tree, for
example, keeps cropping up in dialog boxes and UIs).

I'll even go out on a limb and posit that most of the most innovative
Web 2.0 ideas were probably germinated in the minds of people using
Macs every day.

Using Windows atrophies your brain and stifles interaction design
creativity. I'm surprised I can design at all after using it for that
long. Getting a Mac is like jumping 5 years into the future.
Seriously, I've got a lot of catching up to do.

-Cf

Christopher Fahey
____________________________
Behavior
http://www.behaviordesign.com
me: http://www.graphpaper.com

30 Aug 2007 - 2:38pm
Kelly Muñiz
2007

It's Build 3214 (June 21, 2007).

Also, another issue I encountered with this configuration is that
when you run Vista under Parallels, you're unable to get the Glass
effects due to the 3D graphic accelerators needed.

On Aug 30, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Ari Feldman wrote:

> what version are you running? the latest beta is much faster than
> the previous release. also, versions of parallels before the latest
> beta couldn't access more than 1.5GB...
>
> On 8/30/07, Kelly Muñiz <kmuniz at cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Vishal, do you experience performance problems on the Mac when you
> have Parallels running? I have 3GB of RAM and find noticeable
> degradation of performance in the the Mac when Parallels is running
> with Windows.
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2007, at 12:45 PM, Vishal Iyer wrote:
>
> > I use a MacBook Pro with Parallels (in full screen mode using an
> > additional external monitor). That way I have both Windows & Mac.
> >
> > --
> > -Vishal
> > http://www.vishaliyer.com
> >
> > On 8/30/07, Robert Hoekman, Jr. <robert at rhjr.net> wrote:
> >>> I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to
> >>> buy for web
> >>> design.
> >>
> >>
> >> The best and most usable system is the one you already know. The
> >> best system
> >> is also the same one used by the guy you call for tech support at
> >> 2am before
> >> a deadline.
> >>
> >> Kidding aside, it's really up to you. Many, many designers
> (including
> >> myself) swear by Macs, but floating panels, honestly, kinda drive
> >> me batty.
> >> I can live with this, though, because pretty much everything about
> >> Windows
> >> drives me batty.
> >>
> >> -r-
> >> ________________________________________________________________
> >> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> >> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> >> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> >> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> >> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> >> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> >> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> >>
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
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> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------
> www.flyingyogi.com
> --------------------------------------------------

30 Aug 2007 - 2:45pm
Vishal Subraman...
2005

I have 2 gb ram. Typically have some CS3 apps, FF, Safari, Corp Email
client & iChat on the Mac and Axure, IE running on Windows. And my
performance is ~7/10- besides I don't think its unreasonable to quit a
few progs especially when I have a memory hog like Photoshop running.

My only problems is with the shared folders, where I store all my
files. Accessing it on Windows has been a bit slow.

--
-Vishal
http://www.vishaliyer.com

On 8/30/07, Kelly Muñiz <kmuniz at cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Vishal, do you experience performance problems on the Mac when you
> have Parallels running? I have 3GB of RAM and find noticeable
> degradation of performance in the the Mac when Parallels is running
> with Windows.
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2007, at 12:45 PM, Vishal Iyer wrote:
>
> > I use a MacBook Pro with Parallels (in full screen mode using an
> > additional external monitor). That way I have both Windows & Mac.
> >
> > --
> > -Vishal
> > http://www.vishaliyer.com
> >
> > On 8/30/07, Robert Hoekman, Jr. <robert at rhjr.net> wrote:
> >>> I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to
> >>> buy for web
> >>> design.
> >>
> >>
> >> The best and most usable system is the one you already know. The
> >> best system
> >> is also the same one used by the guy you call for tech support at
> >> 2am before
> >> a deadline.
> >>
> >> Kidding aside, it's really up to you. Many, many designers (including
> >> myself) swear by Macs, but floating panels, honestly, kinda drive
> >> me batty.
> >> I can live with this, though, because pretty much everything about
> >> Windows
> >> drives me batty.
> >>
> >> -r-
> >> ________________________________________________________________
> >> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> >> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> >> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> >> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> >> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> >> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> >> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> >>
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

30 Aug 2007 - 2:49pm
Christopher Fahey
2005

>> Vishal, do you experience performance problems on the Mac when you
>> have Parallels running? I have 3GB of RAM and find noticeable
>> degradation of performance in the the Mac when Parallels is running
>> with Windows.

I've been trying VMWare Fusion, which does the same thing as
Parallels. It's by VMWare, who has been doing this for decades, and
it is allegedly far, far faster than Parallels. So far it's been good
to me, but honestly i am trying to avoid using Windows as much as
possible.

-Cf

Christopher Fahey
____________________________
Behavior
http://www.behaviordesign.com
me: http://www.graphpaper.com

30 Aug 2007 - 2:54pm
Wendy Fischer
2004

Frankly a computer and an OS and software are just tools to use to perform our jobs. I don't really think it matters if we use Mac, Ubuntu, or Windows, as long as there are tools for the platform that allow us to do our job.

I get most of my inspiration looking at the world around me and using a pencil and a sketchpad rather than being locked in staring at a computer.

Christopher Fahey <chris.fahey at behaviordesign.com> wrote: I've just recently switched from a PC to a Mac, after 13 years of
Windows use. I'm smacking myself every day for being so stupid and
waiting so long. I'm just getting started on a blog series about how
stupid I've been and about how much better the Mac experience is, here:
http://tinyurl.com/2am9kf

The idea that using Windows gives you empathy for your users may have
some merit, but I'd venture to say that the idiosyncrasies in your
own Windows usage -- and your probably high-level of expertise --
makes your computer usage so fundamentally different from that of
your users that it's probably a trivial advantage.

I'll be writing more about it later, but I'll say here that for me
the Mac offers so much in the way of *inspiration* for good user
interface design. As one simple example, almost no Preferences dialog
boxes have "OK" or "Apply" buttons -- all your changes take effect
instantly. You never see this in any Windows apps, but if you really
think about it this sort of behavior should be fundamental to almost
all applications. The only reason Windows apps don't do this is dumb
inertia.

Also, Mac app designs tend to hide or leave off obscure and useless
features far more than Windows apps do, something that you don't
notice until you've had all of that useless crap cleared away. The
Mac is basically full of behaviors and designs that inspire user
interface innovation, while Windows (and I've not tried Vista yet)
tends to be full of conventions that should have been scrapped
decades ago (the ".." indicator for browsing up a directory tree, for
example, keeps cropping up in dialog boxes and UIs).

I'll even go out on a limb and posit that most of the most innovative
Web 2.0 ideas were probably germinated in the minds of people using
Macs every day.

Using Windows atrophies your brain and stifles interaction design
creativity. I'm surprised I can design at all after using it for that
long. Getting a Mac is like jumping 5 years into the future.
Seriously, I've got a lot of catching up to do.

-Cf

Christopher Fahey
____________________________
Behavior
http://www.behaviordesign.com
me: http://www.graphpaper.com

________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
Questions .................. list at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

30 Aug 2007 - 3:11pm
Todd Warfel
2003

I imagine David might chime in about how much he liked his tablet PC,
but...these days with Intel Macs, I have a hard time understanding
why anyone buys a PC over a Mac. With the Intel Macs, you can run OS
X, Windows, Linux, and Solaris if you want. This works great for both
Web design and Application design. Run any system you want on a Mac.

I'm not even going to get into discussions on viruses, security, or
stability, and ease-of-use (pretty much all of them, less the virus
issue, is an "it depends..." argument).

[Side note: every day I touch Windows I'm reminded of how ghetto it
is. Just about everything I try ends up taking 2-3 times as long and
more steps in Windows than OS X. I can and do work on both, but
Windows is just more frustrating. It's like trying to draw on with
chalk on butcher paper that's been laid across gravel when you have a
hangover]

On Aug 30, 2007, at 3:08 PM, Douglas Brashear wrote:

> My own thoughts: many of us probably find ourselves on client sites
> regularly, and possibly having to print and/or run projectors from
> our machines. With a Windows machine I've never had a problem
> connecting to client peripherals (e.g. no need for special cable
> adaptors).

I've never had this problem with a Mac in the 15 years I've been
using them. Client printers are on a network. Mac/Win both hook up to
network printers just fine. As for projectors and screens, every Mac
comes with a DVI converter. So, you can plug into any projector or
screen. And yes, I simply keep one in my briefcase.

> Also, when working as part of a client-side team, compatibility
> with the applications they use is paramount...not an issue these
> days with Macs running Windows apps, but the days of trying to open
> converted OmniGraffle files in Visio jaded me.

This has never been an issue for me in the 15 years either.
OmniGraffle does a fine job at importing/exporting Visio files. It's
not perfect, but I'd trade how well it does it for not being on
Windows any day. If you really need to, or prefer Visio, put it on
Windows running on Parallels.

*** The one issue we have that doesn't work on Parallels - Morea.
Morea has to record using Bootcamp. Otherwise, 50% of the video files
will end up corrupted. The viewer and manager work fine in Parallels,
but the recorder must run in Bootcamp.

> I'd also consider durability[...]

Definitely. And for durability, I'd only recommend a Mac or IBM
thinkpad.

Cheers!

Todd Zaki Warfel
President, Design Researcher
Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
----------------------------------
Contact Info
Voice: (215) 825-7423
Email: todd at messagefirst.com
AIM: twarfel at mac.com
Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
----------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.

30 Aug 2007 - 3:17pm
Todd Warfel
2003

This was absolutely timeless.

On Aug 30, 2007, at 4:36 PM, Christopher Fahey wrote:

> I've just recently switched from a PC to a Mac, after 13 years of
> Windows use. I'm smacking myself every day for being so stupid and
> waiting so long. I'm just getting started on a blog series about how
> stupid I've been and about how much better the Mac experience is,
> here:
> http://tinyurl.com/2am9kf
>
> The idea that using Windows gives you empathy for your users may have
> some merit, but I'd venture to say that the idiosyncrasies in your
> own Windows usage -- and your probably high-level of expertise --
> makes your computer usage so fundamentally different from that of
> your users that it's probably a trivial advantage.
>
> I'll be writing more about it later, but I'll say here that for me
> the Mac offers so much in the way of *inspiration* for good user
> interface design. As one simple example, almost no Preferences dialog
> boxes have "OK" or "Apply" buttons -- all your changes take effect
> instantly. You never see this in any Windows apps, but if you really
> think about it this sort of behavior should be fundamental to almost
> all applications. The only reason Windows apps don't do this is dumb
> inertia.
>
> Also, Mac app designs tend to hide or leave off obscure and useless
> features far more than Windows apps do, something that you don't
> notice until you've had all of that useless crap cleared away. The
> Mac is basically full of behaviors and designs that inspire user
> interface innovation, while Windows (and I've not tried Vista yet)
> tends to be full of conventions that should have been scrapped
> decades ago (the ".." indicator for browsing up a directory tree, for
> example, keeps cropping up in dialog boxes and UIs).
>
> I'll even go out on a limb and posit that most of the most innovative
> Web 2.0 ideas were probably germinated in the minds of people using
> Macs every day.
>
> Using Windows atrophies your brain and stifles interaction design
> creativity. I'm surprised I can design at all after using it for that
> long. Getting a Mac is like jumping 5 years into the future.
> Seriously, I've got a lot of catching up to do.
>
> -Cf
>
> Christopher Fahey
> ____________________________
> Behavior
> http://www.behaviordesign.com
> me: http://www.graphpaper.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

Cheers!

Todd Zaki Warfel
President, Design Researcher
Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
----------------------------------
Contact Info
Voice: (215) 825-7423
Email: todd at messagefirst.com
AIM: twarfel at mac.com
Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
----------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.

30 Aug 2007 - 3:31pm
jarango
2004

On 8/30/07, erpdesigner <erpdesigner at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Frankly a computer and an OS and software are just tools to use to perform our jobs. I don't really think it matters if we use Mac, Ubuntu, or Windows, as long as there are tools for the platform that allow us to do our job.

The tools you use make a huge difference to the quality, speed, and
(very important) "pleasure factor" of performing the work. The three
platforms do not compare in these regards. (I'm surprised you included
Linux as an option; trying to do this type of work on OSS is like
trying to perform surgery with a rusty xacto knife... it can be done,
but it's not pleasant.)

The gist of the original question is: what platform has the best tools
/ environment for this type of work? As many others are arguing in
this thread, I think the current Macs do a better job at it than any
other platform -- and you can run Windows on them if you absolutely
need to.

Cheers,

--
Jorge Arango
BootStudio
http://www.bootstudio.com

30 Aug 2007 - 2:24pm
Ari
2006

what version are you running? the latest beta is much faster than the
previous release. also, versions of parallels before the latest beta
couldn't access more than 1.5GB...

On 8/30/07, Kelly Muñiz <kmuniz at cisco.com> wrote:
>
>
> Vishal, do you experience performance problems on the Mac when you
> have Parallels running? I have 3GB of RAM and find noticeable
> degradation of performance in the the Mac when Parallels is running
> with Windows.
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2007, at 12:45 PM, Vishal Iyer wrote:
>
> > I use a MacBook Pro with Parallels (in full screen mode using an
> > additional external monitor). That way I have both Windows & Mac.
> >
> > --
> > -Vishal
> > http://www.vishaliyer.com
> >
> > On 8/30/07, Robert Hoekman, Jr. <robert at rhjr.net> wrote:
> >>> I could really use suggestions on the best type of computer to
> >>> buy for web
> >>> design.
> >>
> >>
> >> The best and most usable system is the one you already know. The
> >> best system
> >> is also the same one used by the guy you call for tech support at
> >> 2am before
> >> a deadline.
> >>
> >> Kidding aside, it's really up to you. Many, many designers (including
> >> myself) swear by Macs, but floating panels, honestly, kinda drive
> >> me batty.
> >> I can live with this, though, because pretty much everything about
> >> Windows
> >> drives me batty.
> >>
> >> -r-
> >> ________________________________________________________________
> >> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> >> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> >> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> >> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> >> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> >> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> >> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> >>
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

--
--------------------------------------------------
www.flyingyogi.com
--------------------------------------------------

30 Aug 2007 - 4:12pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> Personally, particularly if you are doing software design (not web design)
> I think it makes sense to have a windows machine, and not a mac.

Many, many developers use Macs now for all their development work, and since
you can run windows on an Intel Mac via Parallels or Bootcamp, you'd lose
the dual-platform benefits by buying a Windows-only box.

For every Windows app, there's a Mac app that either works with it, or
replaces it. You can use OmniGraffle (Mac), for example, instead of Visio
(Windows) and simply export Visio VDX files for import into Visio if needed.
You can use Pages (I highly recommend '08) and export as a Word doc. Use
Numbers and export to Excel. On and on.

I'm curios: How can you devote all your time to a profession involving the
use of a computer and "just end up" using Windows, as though it happened by
accident? Shouldn't you consciously choose the tools you use?

-r-

30 Aug 2007 - 4:17pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> I can't wait to hear the responses on this one! I think the right
> hardware is key for this job.

This thread sets a trap for yet another Windows vs. Mac debate. But hey, I
haven't had one in a while.

With a Windows machine I've never had a problem connecting to
> client peripherals (e.g. no need for special cable adaptors).

Moot point. Mac laptops come with a dongle for connecting from DVI or
min-DVI (depending on which laptop you bought) to VGA. Toss it in your
laptop bag, and you'll never have an issue. I use a Mac for every
presentation I do, and allI do is plug it in. "It just works." On Windows,
however, I need to mess with settings. There's *always* an issue, for one
reason or another.

running Windows apps, but the days of trying to open converted
> OmniGraffle files in Visio jaded me.

I think this has improved. I'm working with a client right now using Visio
and we're not having any real issues. Tiny quirks, sure, but nothing getting
in the way of getting things done.

-r-

30 Aug 2007 - 4:20pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> I'm currently using a Macbook Pro 2.33 GHz Intel Core Duo with 2 MB RAM.
> With Parallels virtual machine, I run both Mac OS and Windows Vista
> Ultimate
> concurrently on separate monitors with no problems and perfectly
> acceptable
> performance. So I guess my ideal machine would simply be a top-end Macbook
> Pro with the RAM and HD maxed out.

I have a similar setup. Works like a charm. You know, except for the fact
that Windows is running. ;)

-r-

30 Aug 2007 - 4:25pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> I've just recently switched from a PC to a Mac, after 13 years of
> Windows use. I'm smacking myself every day for being so stupid and
> waiting so long.

This is the best Windows vs. Mac thread ... ever!

It's the only one I've seen where almost everyone is advocating Mac.
Granted, we're designers, so you'd expect this to some degree, but the
ability to use Parallels on Mac makes a great case regardless of your
profession.

-r-

30 Aug 2007 - 4:46pm
Lillian Carrascoza
2007

This is great!

It looks like a MacBook Pro with Parallels will be a great investment for me.
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

Lillian Carrascoza

30 Aug 2007 - 4:42pm
Christopher Fahey
2005

> I get most of my inspiration looking at the world around me

Your computer is, in fact, part of the world around you.

Cheers,
-Cf

Christopher Fahey
____________________________
Behavior
http://www.behaviordesign.com
me: http://www.graphpaper.com

30 Aug 2007 - 4:52pm
Wendy Fischer
2004

Yes, and I think designers should take a break, stop looking at it and go look at other things in order to get more innovative.

Christopher Fahey <chris.fahey at behaviordesign.com> wrote: > I get most of my inspiration looking at the world around me

Your computer is, in fact, part of the world around you.

Cheers,
-Cf

Christopher Fahey
____________________________
Behavior
http://www.behaviordesign.com
me: http://www.graphpaper.com

30 Aug 2007 - 4:51pm
.pauric
2006

Not to piss on the mac love parade but the original question, as I
read it, asked about the best 'computer' for design. Whether apple
or not, desktop or laptop.

To re-iterate, I'm hard pressed to find a fault with an iMac setup
with the dual-screen hack. A laptop with a second screen is good but
I much prefer working on 2 similarly sized screens, the larger the
better. Also, the 20" portable and meets the carry-on size
restrictions.
http://www.ilugger.com/

When I've had to travel, its nice arriving at the site with your own
large screen. No hunting a second screen for your laptop, no teams
crowding around a poxxy 15" laptop with poor viewing angle.

The fact that it comes with osx is a nice benefit (o;

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the improved ixda.org
http://beta.ixda.org/discuss?post=19906

30 Aug 2007 - 4:51pm
Jack L. Moffett
2005

Times have changed quite a bit from when I was discriminated against
for using a Mac. These days, I often have developers stopping by my
desk saying, "I wish I had a Mac."

My choice of tools is extremely important to me. A couple years ago,
I had to put together a business case stating why I should not be
forced to switch to a Windows machine. Thankfully, I won. I've never
been forced to prove it, but I've always considered the choice of my
tools (including the OS) to be a factor in keeping or leaving an
employer.

Jack

On Aug 30, 2007, at 6:12 PM, Robert Hoekman, Jr. wrote:

> Many, many developers use Macs now for all their development work,
> and since
> you can run windows on an Intel Mac via Parallels or Bootcamp,
> you'd lose
> the dual-platform benefits by buying a Windows-only box.

Jack L. Moffett
Interaction Designer
inmedius
412.459.0310 x219
http://www.inmedius.com

Things should be as simple as possible,
but no simpler.

- Albert Einstein

30 Aug 2007 - 5:11pm
.pauric
2006

erpdesigner, I think this underlying point here from the mac camp is
one of flow.

That is, the osx interface is more conducive to capturing the
creative output and windows generally being a larger bump in the
road.

Also, drawing inspiration from osx is at a more subtle level, in the
things that it doesnt make you do.

aplogies in advance for this
http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac/apple-getamac-security_480x376.mov

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the improved ixda.org
http://beta.ixda.org/discuss?post=19906

30 Aug 2007 - 5:16pm
Mark Schraad
2006

For a few years back in the day I did some training with designers
switching from manual design over to computers (yes I am that old).
In some corporations the design group was so weak they could not
stand up to the IT group that forced windows upon them. I always felt
bad for them and wondered if I could put up with having to design on
a PC. Fortunately I never had to find out. Now, PC's have
fundamentally the same software with only slightly different
conventions.

But the 'slightly different' is enough. If you are in the business of
designing and pitching better UI design, if you are the go to source
for a better experience, it just seems like there is no other way
than to work on a mac. You have to practice and promote what you
preach. Almost every one of our US developers works on a mac. The
only folks that really use windows here are the business and
accounting staff.

Mark

On Aug 30, 2007, at 6:51 PM, Jack Moffett wrote:

> My choice of tools is extremely important to me. A couple years ago,
> I had to put together a business case stating why I should not be
> forced to switch to a Windows machine. Thankfully, I won. I've never
> been forced to prove it, but I've always considered the choice of my
> tools (including the OS) to be a factor in keeping or leaving an
> employer.

30 Aug 2007 - 5:33pm
Cecily Walker
2006

I just have one question for all of you who work in Mac design shops:

Are any of you hiring? :-D

My last two jobs have been in Windows only environments, but my
platform of choice has been the Mac OS and Macintosh computers since
1996. Recently I decided to stop fighting with the Windows 'ghetto
mentality' (thanks for the best laugh of the day, Todd), and have
started bringing my personal MacBook to the office (I also use
Parallels Desktop). I've been far more productive than I have in ages
(bless you, Omnigraffle, and iWork!) and for a change, I'm enjoying
the process of creating wireframes and design docs because I'm working
on an OS that makes much more sense to me.

No one in the management has said anything yet, but I have a sinking
feeling the day will come when they'll institute a "no personal
laptops in the office" policy. Of course, maybe that'll be the day
that I'll argue for a 70/30 telecommuting/in the office work schedule.

30 Aug 2007 - 6:27pm
Dave Malouf
2005

Mac's are great! I wish I had one at work & at home. I've tried to
make the switch to Mac at work in my last job and (pre Intel) it
failed miserably due to Enterprise constraints. These issues seem to
due to parallels to have gone out the door.

My only remaining issue with Mac is why in the world haven't you
made a really good Tablet MacOS? Or a UMPC? These solutions run on
crummy Windows Vista at this point and are really yucky. Your help
would be appreciated for those of us who REALLY love these niche form
factors.

As to the original question ...
I see no reason today to NOT get a Mac if it is for your own use.
There are a TON of reasons that enterprises don't work with Mac's,
most of which are bureaucratic, but you need those IT bureaucrats
from time to time so it is nice to have them on your good side. Now
if you asked people at Google they would say why is the debate about
Mac vs. Windows ... What about Linux? ... ;)

Seriously, though, I like using Mac when designing Windows and Web
enterprise solutions b/c it keeps me out of the rut of just going to
the "easy" windows conventions all the time.

When it comes to tools, they are the same. I don't exactly buy
Mark's thing that there are significant differences.

One reason to use Windows is that Windows (believe it or not) is FAR
superior for multi-monitor support. I LOATHE mac support (or lack
there of) for multiple monitors. The OS just doesn't really consider
the 2nd monitor as anything as the video output screen or the tools
palette's area. Stationary menu at the top is not a model that works
in multiple or even high resolution monitors ... Just ask Fitz!

-- dave

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://beta.ixda.org/discuss?post=19906

30 Aug 2007 - 7:56pm
Joseph Selbie
2007

Does anyone know if there will ever be (or already is) the equivalent of
Parallels for the PC -- that is, to be able to run MacOS on a Windows box?

Joseph Selbie
Founder, CEO Tristream
http://www.tristream.com

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of David
Malouf
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:28 PM
To: discuss at lists.interactiondesigners.com
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] What's the best Computer for Designers?

Mac's are great! I wish I had one at work & at home. I've tried to
make the switch to Mac at work in my last job and (pre Intel) it
failed miserably due to Enterprise constraints. These issues seem to
due to parallels to have gone out the door.

My only remaining issue with Mac is why in the world haven't you
made a really good Tablet MacOS? Or a UMPC? These solutions run on
crummy Windows Vista at this point and are really yucky. Your help
would be appreciated for those of us who REALLY love these niche form
factors.

As to the original question ...
I see no reason today to NOT get a Mac if it is for your own use.
There are a TON of reasons that enterprises don't work with Mac's,
most of which are bureaucratic, but you need those IT bureaucrats
from time to time so it is nice to have them on your good side. Now
if you asked people at Google they would say why is the debate about
Mac vs. Windows ... What about Linux? ... ;)

Seriously, though, I like using Mac when designing Windows and Web
enterprise solutions b/c it keeps me out of the rut of just going to
the "easy" windows conventions all the time.

When it comes to tools, they are the same. I don't exactly buy
Mark's thing that there are significant differences.

One reason to use Windows is that Windows (believe it or not) is FAR
superior for multi-monitor support. I LOATHE mac support (or lack
there of) for multiple monitors. The OS just doesn't really consider
the 2nd monitor as anything as the video output screen or the tools
palette's area. Stationary menu at the top is not a model that works
in multiple or even high resolution monitors ... Just ask Fitz!

-- dave

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://beta.ixda.org/discuss?post=19906

________________________________________________________________
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30 Aug 2007 - 8:04pm
.pauric
2006

David: "The OS just doesn't really consider the 2nd monitor as
anything as the video output screen or the tools palette's area.
Stationary menu at the top is not a model that works in multiple or
even high resolution monitors"

doooooode! that is just so wrong I dont even know where to start. If
I have to go round to my boss's desk one more time to fix his setup
when he moves in to the dock from standalone I'll go all postal in
his face.

However, my iMac remembers where I placed all my dashboard widgets on
the second monitor when back at base.

So what if the stationary menu is at the top of the primary screen,
where's your 'start' button.. you know for when you want to
'stop' the computer before you tear it a new serial bus.

all in jest -p

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the improved ixda.org
http://beta.ixda.org/discuss?post=19906

30 Aug 2007 - 8:09pm
Mark Schraad
2006

On Aug 30, 2007, at 8:27 PM, David Malouf wrote:
> There are a TON of reasons that enterprises don't work with Mac's,
> most of which are bureaucratic, but you need those IT bureaucrats
> from time to time so it is nice to have them on your good side. Now
> if you asked people at Google they would say why is the debate about
> Mac vs. Windows ... What about Linux? ... ;)

One of the things I really like about my mac, is that I can run
windows software, AND the IT guys do not have a method for pushing
software and security out to it. (I do very little browsing and no
email on my virtual pc) I also have a desktop pc that I have to turn
on once a week in order to file report on an enterprise software
system. It takes friggin forever to get through the start up aps so
that it is finally be ready to use. It also seems to need to download
a bunch of new aps and updates everytime it boots.

>
> Seriously, though, I like using Mac when designing Windows and Web
> enterprise solutions b/c it keeps me out of the rut of just going to
> the "easy" windows conventions all the time.
>
> When it comes to tools, they are the same. I don't exactly buy
> Mark's thing that there are significant differences.

While I think Apple does some nice things, and they set a strong
president for UI years ago, they benefit from some stellar
applications... mostly small little single platform aps.

> One reason to use Windows is that Windows (believe it or not) is FAR
> superior for multi-monitor support. I LOATHE mac support (or lack
> there of) for multiple monitors. The OS just doesn't really consider
> the 2nd monitor as anything as the video output screen or the tools
> palette's area. Stationary menu at the top is not a model that works
> in multiple or even high resolution monitors ... Just ask Fitz!

On this point I will agree. If I have an application window in the
second monitor and disconnect it I am essentially forced to restart.

30 Aug 2007 - 9:22pm
Dante Murphy
2006

There are a couple of things mentioned in this thread (which has been great, and very respectful) that I would like to address.

As to "why would anyone buy a windows box", I can speak from my own experience that there are two pretty valid reasons. The first is that all of the software I have purchased or acquired through work is for the windows platform. I'm not saying they're better, or even different, that's not my point. The point is that they're paid for. CS3 is what, over $1,000? If I had to buy it, and the choice was mine as to which machine I would buy it for, that would be one thing. But I already have tools for a windows machine, and I see no reason to buy Mac software when what I have has worked for me for a long time. It's not a comparison of one toolset to another, it's a matter of out-of-pocket expense.

I did recently have to use a Mac when I took a Flash class, and I was debilitated by the single-button mouse with no scroll wheel. It took me ten minutes to figure out how to open a file in a sub-directory (showing my age?) using Finder. I personally don't love floating panels, especially when the page I have open in the background (for instance) is the ESPN gamecast of a Phillies game, so there is constant update and motion peeking throuhg my application. Now I'm sure that many or all of these things can be remediated, but I've yet to see anyone make a compelling case for why I would want to. Sure it would be nice to be able to test code on Safari, but I don't write code anymore, so that's someone else's problem.

What it really comes down to for me, as I ponder what computer to buy for home use for my wife, is cost. Macs are expensive. My company is happy to provide me with a windows-only laptop, so my work-at-home scenario is covered. Now do I want to lay out considerably more cash to get a Mac just to learn the platform? Will I be suitably impressed such that I start shelling out even more cash to buy the Mac versions of CS3, Omnigraffle, etc.? I can't say it won't happen, but there's a significant ROI to consider.

Lastly, I'm really happy that Christopher has found such a rewarding experience in switching to a Mac, but there's a subtextual poke at designers who continue to use Windows tools that I think is unfair. As others (admittedly, the minority) have pointed out, the PC is just a tool, and there's a lot of familiarity that translates to productivity on each platform. It's like the difference between the roman alphabet and Kanji...they're just different, and the advantages of one over the other are in many cases based upon the personal experience of the subject. I've never felt that the platform on which I run my tools has constrained my ability to design. If my company won't pay for Flash on a PC, they won't pay for it on a Mac either.

Wow, this whole email was about money. I feel dirty.

Dante

30 Aug 2007 - 10:22pm
Jay Barbarich
2007

Further echoing the sentiments of others, chances are that you will be most productive in whatever environment you are most accustomed to.

That being said (and having done work in Windows, OS X, and a handful of Linux distros), I enjoy Macs for noodling around with code as well as using the big guns.

Personally, the simple fact that I don\'t need any form of emulation to run what I deem my \"important\" programs is a huge plus, and coincidentally is what just kept me from ODing on nerdery and recommending a Linux box. OS X has a number of lightweight text editors for coding, and again, it runs CS3 natively, and depending upon your hardware, rather well too.

The same could be said for a Windows machine, however your Mac can BE your Windows machine if you need it to. Tis a thing of beauty.

30 Aug 2007 - 10:57pm
Jack L. Moffett
2005

The one I love is how the "Press Ctrl + Alt + Delete to login" window
is split right down the center on my neighbor's two-headed PC every
time he logs out.

On Aug 30, 2007, at 7:04 PM, pauric wrote:

> However, my iMac remembers where I placed all my dashboard widgets on
> the second monitor when back at base.

Jack L. Moffett
Interaction Designer
inmedius
412.459.0310 x219
http://www.inmedius.com

When I am working on a problem,
I never think about beauty.
I think only of how to solve the problem.

But when I have finished,
if the solution is not beautiful,
I know it is wrong.

- R. Buckminster Fuller

31 Aug 2007 - 6:50am
mtumi
2004

or vmware fusion. (they're getting better reviews...)

On Aug 30, 2007, at 6:46 PM, lcarrascoza at comcast.net wrote:

> This is great!
>
> It looks like a MacBook Pro with Parallels will be a great
> investment for me.
> Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.
>
> Lillian Carrascoza
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

31 Aug 2007 - 6:54am
Jack L. Moffett
2005

On Aug 31, 2007, at 8:50 AM, Michael Tuminello wrote:

> or vmware fusion. (they're getting better reviews...)

If all you need is testing in browsers on Windows, you may consider
Crossover. It doesn't even require that Windows be installed on the
machine.

http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/

Jack L. Moffett
Interaction Designer
inmedius
412.459.0310 x219
http://www.inmedius.com

First, recognize that the ‘right’ requirements
are in principle unknowable by users, customers
and designers at the start.

Devise the design process, and the formal
agreement between designers and customers and users,
to be sensitive to what is learnt by any of the
parties as the design evolves.

- J.C. Jones

31 Aug 2007 - 7:00am
SemanticWill
2007

Wow!

I can't believe this conversation is still going on -- Robert Hoekman nailed
this poor sucker right on the head when he said the best system for design
is the one you know... done. end of story!

Design is not done on an operating system. First, design is done in your
head, then with the collaboration between yourself, colleagues, and users,
and finally with tools. You can do great interaction design with paper and
pencil.. or with Visio, or Omnigraffle, or Photoshop, or Illustrator, or
Dreamweaver, Axure FP, or or or.... this really is only an issue if you have
1. never designed before; 2. have never used a computer before, 3. work for
a company or clients that are completely neutral about your OS and tools -
otherwise the exercise is futile at best.... religious wars about OSes are
about the most useless of mental exercises.

So Design qua Design is tool agnostic, at least interaction design.... print
design is another story - but let's not go there.

On 8/31/07, Michael Tuminello <mt at motiontek.com> wrote:
>
> or vmware fusion. (they're getting better reviews...)
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2007, at 6:46 PM, lcarrascoza at comcast.net wrote:
>
> > This is great!
> >
> > It looks like a MacBook Pro with Parallels will be a great
> > investment for me.
> > Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.
> >
> > Lillian Carrascoza
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

--
~ we

-------------------------------------
n: will evans
t: user experience architect
e: wkevans4 at gmail.com

-------------------------------------

31 Aug 2007 - 8:28am
.pauric
2006

Will, to use your print design analogy, an OS is the white space
between the tools, it has a direct effect on how you use those tools.

Its true that when you only have a hammer, everything else looks like
a nail. If you're detail orientated then you'll prefer the
right/best tool for the task at hand. And, if you want to be
productive/unhindered then you'll want those tools available to you
in a well designed 'tool box'.

The analogy extends as far as the 'workshop', your working
environment. I know I have more creative blocks when I'm working in
a windowless environment (usually a lab) on a cluttered desk.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the improved ixda.org
http://beta.ixda.org/discuss?post=19906

31 Aug 2007 - 8:51am
SemanticWill
2007

Good point man -

it's actually more complex than my little analogy provided - and someone
earlier in the list made a good point - I currently design installed thick
client applications - windows applications (no mac port), and have to
constantly, subconsciously, be aware of my environment and all the
OS-specific standard behaviors, short cuts, accelerator keys, etc... so for
building windows only applications - it does make more sense for my work
machine to be windows.

How about this for a great answer: IT DEPENDS!

snark.

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:28:18, pauric <radiorental at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Will, to use your print design analogy, an OS is the white space
> between the tools, it has a direct effect on how you use those tools.
>
> Its true that when you only have a hammer, everything else looks like
> a nail. If you're detail orientated then you'll prefer the
> right/best tool for the task at hand. And, if you want to be
> productive/unhindered then you'll want those tools available to you
> in a well designed 'tool box'.
>
> The analogy extends as far as the 'workshop', your working
> environment. I know I have more creative blocks when I'm working in
> a windowless environment (usually a lab) on a cluttered desk.
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Posted from the improved ixda.org
> http://beta.ixda.org/discuss?post=19906
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

--
~ we

-------------------------------------
n: will evans
t: user experience architect
e: wkevans4 at gmail.com

-------------------------------------

31 Aug 2007 - 11:54am
Jack L. Moffett
2005

On Aug 31, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Erwin, Marla wrote:

> Or is that information out of date? Do you use it for browser testing?

No, I haven't. I had just heard that it ran IE. Perhaps not.

Jack

Jack L. Moffett
Interaction Designer
inmedius
412.459.0310 x219
http://www.inmedius.com

Design is a process -
an intimate collaboration between
engineers, designers, and clients.

- Henry Dreyfuss

31 Aug 2007 - 10:05am
Rob Nero
2005

Hello, my name is Rob, and I am a Windows user... And I'm not ashamed of
that! :)

To grossly generalize the personalities of the developers working on
each OS, based on the image that the respective companies portray....
Wouldn't it be fascinating to job swap the developers?! Imagine a
Windows developer integrating into a Mac development team, or a Mac
developer joining a Windows development team!

On a more serious note, I would really like to see this job swap. I
always enjoy different perspectives on the same challenge and feel I
always benefit from the collaboration.

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31 Aug 2007 - 1:14pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> Imagine a Windows developer integrating into a Mac development team

I've done this.

or a Mac developer joining a Windows development team!

I've done this too.

I used to work in Windows-only shops, but I learned to develop on Mac. So
moving to Windows was tough. But I eventually got so used to developing on
Windows that I had a hard time figuring out how to do all the same stuff on
my Mac at home. There were a few Windows-only tools I used that I had to
compensate for at home.

Now, I don't think I even work with anyone who uses Windows. Even developers
at client companies are on Mac, and everyone on my team is on Mac. So, you
see, that whole Windows thing was just a big distraction. Things are finally
back to normal. :)

-r-

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