Why do we insist on placing the logo in thetopleft corner?

7 Aug 2007 - 8:38pm
7 years ago
10 replies
517 reads
Heather Hollis
2007

Hi - I'm new to posting to this list and have been an observer for a
while

Just couldn't resist on replying to this - the logo in the upper left
has always perturbed me and am always on every possible occasion trying
to rethink logo placement in context of branded websites and how can we
create a new presentation that evokes the brand where the obvious
identifier such as a logo isn't needed - certain product design does
this well - the form is the brand and there isn't the need for a logo
slapped on as an identifier - I think web design is in an infantile
stage still and when technology matures we will have alot of opportunity
to rethink/challenge today's standards that are primarily influenced by
print

Ages ago we did eye tracking studies when they were vogue and the tests
revealed to us that the user (cant stand that word - I think of an
addict every time I use it) naturally looks to the top left first - not
sure this reveals a result of habit or natural intention

Best
HH

CD,CNN.com

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
Bryan Minihan
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:11 PM
To: 'Steve Baty'; 'Keiyu Kamatani'
Cc: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in
thetopleft corner?

For internal apps, our general guidance is: Logo in the upper left,
Search
in the upper right (when available). Some folks like to spend lots of
money
on an unrecognizable/meaningless logo - for those we recommend just the
name
of the application and/or page in the upper left (more obvious) and the
logo
(if we don't tell them to get rid of it) in the upper right. I'm
thinking
along the lines of a giant purple leopard that's supposed to represent
the
internal fleet management team (we've had worse).

I agree with Steve, in that the upper left is the easiest place for
people
to recognize where they are, without taking up space where people would
look
for other things (like search, primary nav, etc).

- Bryan
http://www.bryanminihan.com

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
Steve
Baty
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:00 PM
To: Keiyu Kamatani
Cc: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the
topleft corner?

Keiyu,

"What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the logo need to be in
the
top left corner of a page? Is this simply a consequence of convention?
Have there been studies indicating that users get frustrated when the
logo's
placed on the right side? Or is there a more fundamental issue of
usability?"

For us it's a question of providing a very fast, visual cue to the
visitor
of where they've landed. Top-left loads early; is where the eye is
(/tends
to be) drawn; and follows a reasonably well-established convention.
Nothing
too mystical or dogmatic about it.

Regards,

Steve Baty

----------------------------------------------
Steve 'Doc' Baty B.Sc (Maths), M.EC, MBA
Director, User Experience Strategy
Red Square
P: +612 8289 4930
M: +61 417 061 292

Member, UPA - www.upassoc.org
Member, IxDA - www.ixda.org
Member, Web Standards Group - www.webstandardsgroup.org
Columnist, UXMatters - www.uxmatters.com
________________________________________________________________
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Comments

7 Aug 2007 - 11:47pm
Suresh JV
2004

The primary reason is because of the way we read & write our scripts. The
people who read their written scripts from left to right, have a tendency to
look at top left corner by default, because that's the way we read our books
or start writing.

Suresh JV.
http://cre8tvt.blogspot.com/
-----------------------------------------------
Logic takes you from A to B.
Creativity takes you everywhere.
-----------------------------------------------

8 Aug 2007 - 8:57am
jim muntone
2006

Whether right or wrong, we've also, (since the logo typically links to the home page), drilled it into user's minds that clicking on whatever the pretty graphic is at the top left of the page will get you home...

And I've seen time and time again in tests that I've run that even with specific navigation elements that are labeled "home" users will almost always click on the logo before using a bread crumb trail or tab, to get back home. And will often get very irritated when the logo is not hyperlinked.

That said, I think it's not a huge stretch to make the argument that the logo goes top left because, (more important than some brand awareness issue), it's also where user's expect to find a control to get back home and the logo is the marker identified with that control.

Moving it would be like painting a stop sign green.

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of W Evans
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:17 AM
To: Susie Robson
Cc: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in thetopleft corner?

Here is some research:

http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html

Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a Website

By Sav Shrestha <sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu> & Kelsi Lenz <kmlenz at wichita.edu>

*Summary: *This article discusses users' visual scan paths of web pages
containing text and/or pictures while conducting browsing and searching
tasks. User performance on three usability tasks on an e-commerce website is
described. Results show that users follow a fairly uniform scan path when
browsing through pictures, and a more random path while specifically
searching through them. Additionally, users appeared to follow Nielsen's 'F'
pattern (2006) while both browsing and searching through text-based pages.

Introduction

According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on the left side of the body
of a webpage when reading and fixate very little on information located on
the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F' viewing pattern with a few
horizontal scans, the first one being longer than the second and a long
vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are that users may miss
valuable information located on the right-hand side of the page.

[image: "F" pattern, the red areas indicating more number of fixations]
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html

*Figure 1.* The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen (2006).
(The red areas indicate the highest number of fixations, followed by yellow
and blue.)

This study investigated whether the "F" pattern style of viewing was
dependent on the page content (text-based vs. picture-based) and/or on the
user task (searching vs. browsing). This information could play a valuable
role in determining where companies should place certain types of
information on web pages.

On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com> wrote:
>
> I don't have specific articles to cite but I have taken many design
> classes throughout the years, and have been taught that the top left is one
> of the best places for logo placement. This goes back to print copy as
> well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is the logo/title? Always top
> left. Western culture reads from left to right so we are used to starting at
> the top left with just about anything and then tend to read in a Z pattern
> (top left then across to right, then down to bottom left and across to the
> right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes the bottom right is a good
> place for a logo). Most design is because of print design and many studies
> were done throughout the years and standards were developed because of
> these. There are other places to put logos but it depends on the layout of
> the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid you use.
>
> I know everyone wants to be innovative but there are good reasons to have
> standards and it's better to use that creativity and innovation in other
> ways.
>
> Susie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Manish
> Pillewar
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
> To: discuss at ixda.org
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the
> topleft corner?
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been having these doubts since a long time. Glad
> this came up.
>
> I remember attending a UI Workshop during my college
> days. We were asked to create menu structure and the
> interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu at
> the left, i instinctively placed it on the right. I
> find this convenient and tend to think the users would
> be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster than
> whats on the left. I was surprised then to know that
> research says we all look to the left instead.
>
> Has it been scientifically proved that its the way the
> brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with our
> experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
> windows-left start menu,etc)?
>
> I'm trying to cite examples from the real world where
> we look for information to the right and not the left.
>
> Know of any?
>
> Still thinking,
> Manish
>
>
> ----------x---x-----------
> Hi Keiyu and Claude:
>
> Maybe it's also a contribution of layout's default
> value. If you do
> nothing, the logo just be put to there automatically.
> And also, both
> Asia
> and westerns newspapers or letter paper's logo tend to
> be at that
> place,
> this may, as the guys says, becomes the conventions
> of the logo
> layout.
> That's to say, it's the culture
> constrains/conventions, make it easier
> there
> to be found be people (1. people look for that for
> location
> information, 2.
> it be put there to meet the user's habit).
>
> Cheers
> -- Jarod
>
> On 8/8/07, Claude Knaus <clyde7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Keiyu,
> >
> > In the book "Universal Principles of Design", there
> is one principle
> > (can´t
> > remember which one but it belongs to the Gestalt
> principles of
> design)
> > which
> > says that things placed at the top are likely to be
> considered to
> belong
> > to
> > the background, while things at the bottom belong to
> the foreground.
> >
> > So, placing a logo at the bottom would be more
> effective, from this
> point
> > of
> > view. When creating 3D demo applications, I used to
> place the logo
> bottom
> > left, obscuring the scenery there.
> >
> > -- Claude
> >
> > On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi everyone. First post here (excluding the job
> post a few days
> back).
> > > What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the
> logo need to be
> in
> > the
> > > top left corner of a page? Is this simply a
> consequence of
> convention?
> > > Have there been studies indicating that users get
> frustrated when
> the
> > > logo's
> > > placed on the right side? Or is there a more
> fundamental issue of
> > > usability?
> > >
> > > I'm covering my bases in regards to:
> > >
> > > - The logo being a home button by including home
> in the global nav.
> > > - Making sure the design reflects the brand
> identity with enough
> > strength
> > > that in the event the logo's hidden (i.e. small
> screen) the brand
> > doesn't
> > > suffer.
> > > - Leveraging the unconventional method of
> right-side placement to
> its
> > > fullest (there's a lot you can do actually).
> > >
> > > What are some of your thoughts regarding this
> issue?
> > >
> > > Keiyu Kamatani
> > > HeathWallace (HK) Ltd
>
>
> Thanks and Regards
> Manish Govind Pillewar
> Sr. User Interface Designer-UXD
> Bangalore-India
>
> Tel. +91 9880566951 (M)
> +91 80 41113967 (Eve.)
> Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface :-)
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try
> it
> now.
> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

--
~ we

-------------------------------------
n: will evans
t: user experience architect
e: wkevans4 at gmail.com

-------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
Questions .................. list at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

8 Aug 2007 - 9:09am
Keiyu Kamatani
2007

Jim - Do you really think moving the logo would be as severe as painting a
stop sign green?

If the logo is properly hyperlinked and users understand that for this
particular site/brand, the logo's on the right would they still be
irritated?

On 8/8/07, Muntone, Jim <Jim.Muntone at dowjones.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Whether right or wrong, we've also, (since the logo typically links to the
> home page), drilled it into user's minds that clicking on whatever the
> pretty graphic is at the top left of the page will get you home...
>
> And I've seen time and time again in tests that I've run that even with
> specific navigation elements that are labeled "home" users will almost
> always click on the logo before using a bread crumb trail or tab, to get
> back home. And will often get very irritated when the logo is not
> hyperlinked.
>
> That said, I think it's not a huge stretch to make the argument that the
> logo goes top left because, (more important than some brand awareness
> issue), it's also where user's expect to find a control to get back home and
> the logo is the marker identified with that control.
>
> Moving it would be like painting a stop sign green.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of W Evans
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:17 AM
> To: Susie Robson
> Cc: discuss at ixda.org
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in
> thetopleft corner?
>
> Here is some research:
>
> http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html
>
> Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a Website
>
> By Sav Shrestha <sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu> & Kelsi Lenz <kmlenz at wichita.edu
> >
>
> *Summary: *This article discusses users' visual scan paths of web pages
> containing text and/or pictures while conducting browsing and searching
> tasks. User performance on three usability tasks on an e-commerce website
> is
> described. Results show that users follow a fairly uniform scan path when
> browsing through pictures, and a more random path while specifically
> searching through them. Additionally, users appeared to follow Nielsen's
> 'F'
> pattern (2006) while both browsing and searching through text-based pages.
>
> Introduction
>
> According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on the left side of the
> body
> of a webpage when reading and fixate very little on information located on
> the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F' viewing pattern with a few
> horizontal scans, the first one being longer than the second and a long
> vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are that users may miss
> valuable information located on the right-hand side of the page.
>
> [image: "F" pattern, the red areas indicating more number of fixations]
> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html
>
> *Figure 1.* The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen (2006).
> (The red areas indicate the highest number of fixations, followed by
> yellow
> and blue.)
>
> This study investigated whether the "F" pattern style of viewing was
> dependent on the page content (text-based vs. picture-based) and/or on the
> user task (searching vs. browsing). This information could play a valuable
> role in determining where companies should place certain types of
> information on web pages.
>
>
> On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com> wrote:
> >
> > I don't have specific articles to cite but I have taken many design
> > classes throughout the years, and have been taught that the top left is
> one
> > of the best places for logo placement. This goes back to print copy as
> > well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is the logo/title? Always
> top
> > left. Western culture reads from left to right so we are used to
> starting at
> > the top left with just about anything and then tend to read in a Z
> pattern
> > (top left then across to right, then down to bottom left and across to
> the
> > right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes the bottom right is a
> good
> > place for a logo). Most design is because of print design and many
> studies
> > were done throughout the years and standards were developed because of
> > these. There are other places to put logos but it depends on the layout
> of
> > the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid you use.
> >
> > I know everyone wants to be innovative but there are good reasons to
> have
> > standards and it's better to use that creativity and innovation in other
> > ways.
> >
> > Susie
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> > discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Manish
> > Pillewar
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
> > To: discuss at ixda.org
> > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the
> > topleft corner?
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've been having these doubts since a long time. Glad
> > this came up.
> >
> > I remember attending a UI Workshop during my college
> > days. We were asked to create menu structure and the
> > interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu at
> > the left, i instinctively placed it on the right. I
> > find this convenient and tend to think the users would
> > be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster than
> > whats on the left. I was surprised then to know that
> > research says we all look to the left instead.
> >
> > Has it been scientifically proved that its the way the
> > brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with our
> > experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
> > windows-left start menu,etc)?
> >
> > I'm trying to cite examples from the real world where
> > we look for information to the right and not the left.
> >
> > Know of any?
> >
> > Still thinking,
> > Manish
> >
> >
> > ----------x---x-----------
> > Hi Keiyu and Claude:
> >
> > Maybe it's also a contribution of layout's default
> > value. If you do
> > nothing, the logo just be put to there automatically.
> > And also, both
> > Asia
> > and westerns newspapers or letter paper's logo tend to
> > be at that
> > place,
> > this may, as the guys says, becomes the conventions
> > of the logo
> > layout.
> > That's to say, it's the culture
> > constrains/conventions, make it easier
> > there
> > to be found be people (1. people look for that for
> > location
> > information, 2.
> > it be put there to meet the user's habit).
> >
> > Cheers
> > -- Jarod
> >
> > On 8/8/07, Claude Knaus <clyde7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Keiyu,
> > >
> > > In the book "Universal Principles of Design", there
> > is one principle
> > > (can´t
> > > remember which one but it belongs to the Gestalt
> > principles of
> > design)
> > > which
> > > says that things placed at the top are likely to be
> > considered to
> > belong
> > > to
> > > the background, while things at the bottom belong to
> > the foreground.
> > >
> > > So, placing a logo at the bottom would be more
> > effective, from this
> > point
> > > of
> > > view. When creating 3D demo applications, I used to
> > place the logo
> > bottom
> > > left, obscuring the scenery there.
> > >
> > > -- Claude
> > >
> > > On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone. First post here (excluding the job
> > post a few days
> > back).
> > > > What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the
> > logo need to be
> > in
> > > the
> > > > top left corner of a page? Is this simply a
> > consequence of
> > convention?
> > > > Have there been studies indicating that users get
> > frustrated when
> > the
> > > > logo's
> > > > placed on the right side? Or is there a more
> > fundamental issue of
> > > > usability?
> > > >
> > > > I'm covering my bases in regards to:
> > > >
> > > > - The logo being a home button by including home
> > in the global nav.
> > > > - Making sure the design reflects the brand
> > identity with enough
> > > strength
> > > > that in the event the logo's hidden (i.e. small
> > screen) the brand
> > > doesn't
> > > > suffer.
> > > > - Leveraging the unconventional method of
> > right-side placement to
> > its
> > > > fullest (there's a lot you can do actually).
> > > >
> > > > What are some of your thoughts regarding this
> > issue?
> > > >
> > > > Keiyu Kamatani
> > > > HeathWallace (HK) Ltd
> >
> >
> > Thanks and Regards
> > Manish Govind Pillewar
> > Sr. User Interface Designer-UXD
> > Bangalore-India
> >
> > Tel. +91 9880566951 (M)
> > +91 80 41113967 (Eve.)
> > Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try
> > it
> > now.
> > http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ~ we
>
> -------------------------------------
> n: will evans
> t: user experience architect
> e: wkevans4 at gmail.com
>
> -------------------------------------
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

8 Aug 2007 - 9:27am
SemanticWill
2007

Well - when this topic comes up - I always go to my favorite high traffic
site that breaks this convention (and did so very loudly). A very high
profile company did the Audi site, but I can't remember whether it was
Zentropy, IXL, Razorfish, or some other company --
Anyway - this is the R8 Subsection - how (and major subsection pages have
the same layout). Except for the back button on the browser, how do you get
home?

The center graphic – on all pages – is 850px wide.

On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jim - Do you really think moving the logo would be as severe as painting a
> stop sign green?
>
> If the logo is properly hyperlinked and users understand that for this
> particular site/brand, the logo's on the right would they still be
> irritated?
>
> On 8/8/07, Muntone, Jim <Jim.Muntone at dowjones.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Whether right or wrong, we've also, (since the logo typically links to
> the
> > home page), drilled it into user's minds that clicking on whatever the
> > pretty graphic is at the top left of the page will get you home...
> >
> > And I've seen time and time again in tests that I've run that even with
> > specific navigation elements that are labeled "home" users will almost
> > always click on the logo before using a bread crumb trail or tab, to get
> > back home. And will often get very irritated when the logo is not
> > hyperlinked.
> >
> > That said, I think it's not a huge stretch to make the argument that the
> > logo goes top left because, (more important than some brand awareness
> > issue), it's also where user's expect to find a control to get back home
> and
> > the logo is the marker identified with that control.
> >
> > Moving it would be like painting a stop sign green.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> > discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of W Evans
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:17 AM
> > To: Susie Robson
> > Cc: discuss at ixda.org
> > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in
> > thetopleft corner?
> >
> > Here is some research:
> >
> > http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html
> >
> > Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a Website
> >
> > By Sav Shrestha <sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu> & Kelsi Lenz <
> kmlenz at wichita.edu
> > >
> >
> > *Summary: *This article discusses users' visual scan paths of web pages
> > containing text and/or pictures while conducting browsing and searching
> > tasks. User performance on three usability tasks on an e-commerce
> website
> > is
> > described. Results show that users follow a fairly uniform scan path
> when
> > browsing through pictures, and a more random path while specifically
> > searching through them. Additionally, users appeared to follow Nielsen's
> > 'F'
> > pattern (2006) while both browsing and searching through text-based
> pages.
> >
> > Introduction
> >
> > According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on the left side of the
> > body
> > of a webpage when reading and fixate very little on information located
> on
> > the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F' viewing pattern with a few
> > horizontal scans, the first one being longer than the second and a long
> > vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are that users may miss
> > valuable information located on the right-hand side of the page.
> >
> > [image: "F" pattern, the red areas indicating more number of fixations]
> > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html
> >
> > *Figure 1.* The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen (2006).
> > (The red areas indicate the highest number of fixations, followed by
> > yellow
> > and blue.)
> >
> > This study investigated whether the "F" pattern style of viewing was
> > dependent on the page content (text-based vs. picture-based) and/or on
> the
> > user task (searching vs. browsing). This information could play a
> valuable
> > role in determining where companies should place certain types of
> > information on web pages.
> >
> >
> > On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't have specific articles to cite but I have taken many design
> > > classes throughout the years, and have been taught that the top left
> is
> > one
> > > of the best places for logo placement. This goes back to print copy as
> > > well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is the logo/title?
> Always
> > top
> > > left. Western culture reads from left to right so we are used to
> > starting at
> > > the top left with just about anything and then tend to read in a Z
> > pattern
> > > (top left then across to right, then down to bottom left and across to
> > the
> > > right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes the bottom right is a
> > good
> > > place for a logo). Most design is because of print design and many
> > studies
> > > were done throughout the years and standards were developed because of
> > > these. There are other places to put logos but it depends on the
> layout
> > of
> > > the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid you use.
> > >
> > > I know everyone wants to be innovative but there are good reasons to
> > have
> > > standards and it's better to use that creativity and innovation in
> other
> > > ways.
> > >
> > > Susie
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> > > discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Manish
> > > Pillewar
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
> > > To: discuss at ixda.org
> > > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in
> the
> > > topleft corner?
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I've been having these doubts since a long time. Glad
> > > this came up.
> > >
> > > I remember attending a UI Workshop during my college
> > > days. We were asked to create menu structure and the
> > > interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu at
> > > the left, i instinctively placed it on the right. I
> > > find this convenient and tend to think the users would
> > > be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster than
> > > whats on the left. I was surprised then to know that
> > > research says we all look to the left instead.
> > >
> > > Has it been scientifically proved that its the way the
> > > brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with our
> > > experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
> > > windows-left start menu,etc)?
> > >
> > > I'm trying to cite examples from the real world where
> > > we look for information to the right and not the left.
> > >
> > > Know of any?
> > >
> > > Still thinking,
> > > Manish
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------x---x-----------
> > > Hi Keiyu and Claude:
> > >
> > > Maybe it's also a contribution of layout's default
> > > value. If you do
> > > nothing, the logo just be put to there automatically.
> > > And also, both
> > > Asia
> > > and westerns newspapers or letter paper's logo tend to
> > > be at that
> > > place,
> > > this may, as the guys says, becomes the conventions
> > > of the logo
> > > layout.
> > > That's to say, it's the culture
> > > constrains/conventions, make it easier
> > > there
> > > to be found be people (1. people look for that for
> > > location
> > > information, 2.
> > > it be put there to meet the user's habit).
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > -- Jarod
> > >
> > > On 8/8/07, Claude Knaus <clyde7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Keiyu,
> > > >
> > > > In the book "Universal Principles of Design", there
> > > is one principle
> > > > (can´t
> > > > remember which one but it belongs to the Gestalt
> > > principles of
> > > design)
> > > > which
> > > > says that things placed at the top are likely to be
> > > considered to
> > > belong
> > > > to
> > > > the background, while things at the bottom belong to
> > > the foreground.
> > > >
> > > > So, placing a logo at the bottom would be more
> > > effective, from this
> > > point
> > > > of
> > > > view. When creating 3D demo applications, I used to
> > > place the logo
> > > bottom
> > > > left, obscuring the scenery there.
> > > >
> > > > -- Claude
> > > >
> > > > On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi everyone. First post here (excluding the job
> > > post a few days
> > > back).
> > > > > What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the
> > > logo need to be
> > > in
> > > > the
> > > > > top left corner of a page? Is this simply a
> > > consequence of
> > > convention?
> > > > > Have there been studies indicating that users get
> > > frustrated when
> > > the
> > > > > logo's
> > > > > placed on the right side? Or is there a more
> > > fundamental issue of
> > > > > usability?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm covering my bases in regards to:
> > > > >
> > > > > - The logo being a home button by including home
> > > in the global nav.
> > > > > - Making sure the design reflects the brand
> > > identity with enough
> > > > strength
> > > > > that in the event the logo's hidden (i.e. small
> > > screen) the brand
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > suffer.
> > > > > - Leveraging the unconventional method of
> > > right-side placement to
> > > its
> > > > > fullest (there's a lot you can do actually).
> > > > >
> > > > > What are some of your thoughts regarding this
> > > issue?
> > > > >
> > > > > Keiyu Kamatani
> > > > > HeathWallace (HK) Ltd
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks and Regards
> > > Manish Govind Pillewar
> > > Sr. User Interface Designer-UXD
> > > Bangalore-India
> > >
> > > Tel. +91 9880566951 (M)
> > > +91 80 41113967 (Eve.)
> > > Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___________________________________________________________
> > > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer.
> Try
> > > it
> > > now.
> > > http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
> > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ~ we
> >
> > -------------------------------------
> > n: will evans
> > t: user experience architect
> > e: wkevans4 at gmail.com
> >
> > -------------------------------------
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

--
~ we

-------------------------------------
n: will evans
t: user experience architect
e: wkevans4 at gmail.com

-------------------------------------

8 Aug 2007 - 9:33am
bminihan
2007

I would agree we've also seen studies demonstrate that users prefer clicking "the pretty graphic" or whatever is in the upper left corner, even over an explicit Home button or breadcrumb trail. We added a Home button to our portal even though the logo did the same, and have web metrics and user study evidence that we can remove it - practically no one ever clicks Home. Out of 60,000 users a month, we get about 50 clicks on the home button and a few thousand on the logo (I'm a little off on the numbers, but that's the right order of magnitude).

---- "Muntone wrote:
>
>
> Whether right or wrong, we've also, (since the logo typically links to the home page), drilled it into user's minds that clicking on whatever the pretty graphic is at the top left of the page will get you home...
>
> And I've seen time and time again in tests that I've run that even with specific navigation elements that are labeled "home" users will almost always click on the logo before using a bread crumb trail or tab, to get back home. And will often get very irritated when the logo is not hyperlinked.
>
> That said, I think it's not a huge stretch to make the argument that the logo goes top left because, (more important than some brand awareness issue), it's also where user's expect to find a control to get back home and the logo is the marker identified with that control.
>
> Moving it would be like painting a stop sign green.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of W Evans
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:17 AM
> To: Susie Robson
> Cc: discuss at ixda.org
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in thetopleft corner?
>
> Here is some research:
>
> http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html
>
> Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a Website
>
> By Sav Shrestha <sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu> & Kelsi Lenz <kmlenz at wichita.edu>
>
> *Summary: *This article discusses users' visual scan paths of web pages
> containing text and/or pictures while conducting browsing and searching
> tasks. User performance on three usability tasks on an e-commerce website is
> described. Results show that users follow a fairly uniform scan path when
> browsing through pictures, and a more random path while specifically
> searching through them. Additionally, users appeared to follow Nielsen's 'F'
> pattern (2006) while both browsing and searching through text-based pages.
>
> Introduction
>
> According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on the left side of the body
> of a webpage when reading and fixate very little on information located on
> the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F' viewing pattern with a few
> horizontal scans, the first one being longer than the second and a long
> vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are that users may miss
> valuable information located on the right-hand side of the page.
>
> [image: "F" pattern, the red areas indicating more number of fixations]
> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html
>
> *Figure 1.* The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen (2006).
> (The red areas indicate the highest number of fixations, followed by yellow
> and blue.)
>
> This study investigated whether the "F" pattern style of viewing was
> dependent on the page content (text-based vs. picture-based) and/or on the
> user task (searching vs. browsing). This information could play a valuable
> role in determining where companies should place certain types of
> information on web pages.
>
>
> On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com> wrote:
> >
> > I don't have specific articles to cite but I have taken many design
> > classes throughout the years, and have been taught that the top left is one
> > of the best places for logo placement. This goes back to print copy as
> > well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is the logo/title? Always top
> > left. Western culture reads from left to right so we are used to starting at
> > the top left with just about anything and then tend to read in a Z pattern
> > (top left then across to right, then down to bottom left and across to the
> > right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes the bottom right is a good
> > place for a logo). Most design is because of print design and many studies
> > were done throughout the years and standards were developed because of
> > these. There are other places to put logos but it depends on the layout of
> > the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid you use.
> >
> > I know everyone wants to be innovative but there are good reasons to have
> > standards and it's better to use that creativity and innovation in other
> > ways.
> >
> > Susie
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> > discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Manish
> > Pillewar
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
> > To: discuss at ixda.org
> > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the
> > topleft corner?
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've been having these doubts since a long time. Glad
> > this came up.
> >
> > I remember attending a UI Workshop during my college
> > days. We were asked to create menu structure and the
> > interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu at
> > the left, i instinctively placed it on the right. I
> > find this convenient and tend to think the users would
> > be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster than
> > whats on the left. I was surprised then to know that
> > research says we all look to the left instead.
> >
> > Has it been scientifically proved that its the way the
> > brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with our
> > experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
> > windows-left start menu,etc)?
> >
> > I'm trying to cite examples from the real world where
> > we look for information to the right and not the left.
> >
> > Know of any?
> >
> > Still thinking,
> > Manish
> >
> >
> > ----------x---x-----------
> > Hi Keiyu and Claude:
> >
> > Maybe it's also a contribution of layout's default
> > value. If you do
> > nothing, the logo just be put to there automatically.
> > And also, both
> > Asia
> > and westerns newspapers or letter paper's logo tend to
> > be at that
> > place,
> > this may, as the guys says, becomes the conventions
> > of the logo
> > layout.
> > That's to say, it's the culture
> > constrains/conventions, make it easier
> > there
> > to be found be people (1. people look for that for
> > location
> > information, 2.
> > it be put there to meet the user's habit).
> >
> > Cheers
> > -- Jarod
> >
> > On 8/8/07, Claude Knaus <clyde7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Keiyu,
> > >
> > > In the book "Universal Principles of Design", there
> > is one principle
> > > (can´t
> > > remember which one but it belongs to the Gestalt
> > principles of
> > design)
> > > which
> > > says that things placed at the top are likely to be
> > considered to
> > belong
> > > to
> > > the background, while things at the bottom belong to
> > the foreground.
> > >
> > > So, placing a logo at the bottom would be more
> > effective, from this
> > point
> > > of
> > > view. When creating 3D demo applications, I used to
> > place the logo
> > bottom
> > > left, obscuring the scenery there.
> > >
> > > -- Claude
> > >
> > > On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone. First post here (excluding the job
> > post a few days
> > back).
> > > > What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the
> > logo need to be
> > in
> > > the
> > > > top left corner of a page? Is this simply a
> > consequence of
> > convention?
> > > > Have there been studies indicating that users get
> > frustrated when
> > the
> > > > logo's
> > > > placed on the right side? Or is there a more
> > fundamental issue of
> > > > usability?
> > > >
> > > > I'm covering my bases in regards to:
> > > >
> > > > - The logo being a home button by including home
> > in the global nav.
> > > > - Making sure the design reflects the brand
> > identity with enough
> > > strength
> > > > that in the event the logo's hidden (i.e. small
> > screen) the brand
> > > doesn't
> > > > suffer.
> > > > - Leveraging the unconventional method of
> > right-side placement to
> > its
> > > > fullest (there's a lot you can do actually).
> > > >
> > > > What are some of your thoughts regarding this
> > issue?
> > > >
> > > > Keiyu Kamatani
> > > > HeathWallace (HK) Ltd
> >
> >
> > Thanks and Regards
> > Manish Govind Pillewar
> > Sr. User Interface Designer-UXD
> > Bangalore-India
> >
> > Tel. +91 9880566951 (M)
> > +91 80 41113967 (Eve.)
> > Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try
> > it
> > now.
> > http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ~ we
>
> -------------------------------------
> n: will evans
> t: user experience architect
> e: wkevans4 at gmail.com
>
> -------------------------------------
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

--
- Bryan
http://www.bryanminihan.com

8 Aug 2007 - 9:41am
Keiyu Kamatani
2007

So this suggests, as one of my colleagues mentioned, that the logo is very
much a "symbol of home."

Bryan - Your metrics clearly indicate that the logo's used as a call to
action for home, but it really doesn't suggest anything regarding
positioning.

If the header area and navigation fully support different logo (with home
hyperlink) positions, and at the same time lends itself to brand consistency
I think it would work quite well. Naturally, we'll know for sure once the
site launches. :)

On 8/8/07, bjminihan at nc.rr.com <bjminihan at nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I would agree we've also seen studies demonstrate that users prefer
> clicking "the pretty graphic" or whatever is in the upper left corner, even
> over an explicit Home button or breadcrumb trail. We added a Home button to
> our portal even though the logo did the same, and have web metrics and user
> study evidence that we can remove it - practically no one ever clicks
> Home. Out of 60,000 users a month, we get about 50 clicks on the home
> button and a few thousand on the logo (I'm a little off on the numbers, but
> that's the right order of magnitude).
>
> ---- "Muntone wrote:
> >
> >
> > Whether right or wrong, we've also, (since the logo typically links to
> the home page), drilled it into user's minds that clicking on whatever the
> pretty graphic is at the top left of the page will get you home...
> >
> > And I've seen time and time again in tests that I've run that even with
> specific navigation elements that are labeled "home" users will almost
> always click on the logo before using a bread crumb trail or tab, to get
> back home. And will often get very irritated when the logo is not
> hyperlinked.
> >
> > That said, I think it's not a huge stretch to make the argument that the
> logo goes top left because, (more important than some brand awareness
> issue), it's also where user's expect to find a control to get back home and
> the logo is the marker identified with that control.
> >
> > Moving it would be like painting a stop sign green.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of W Evans
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:17 AM
> > To: Susie Robson
> > Cc: discuss at ixda.org
> > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in
> thetopleft corner?
> >
> > Here is some research:
> >
> > http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html
> >
> > Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a Website
> >
> > By Sav Shrestha <sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu> & Kelsi Lenz <
> kmlenz at wichita.edu>
> >
> > *Summary: *This article discusses users' visual scan paths of web pages
> > containing text and/or pictures while conducting browsing and searching
> > tasks. User performance on three usability tasks on an e-commerce
> website is
> > described. Results show that users follow a fairly uniform scan path
> when
> > browsing through pictures, and a more random path while specifically
> > searching through them. Additionally, users appeared to follow Nielsen's
> 'F'
> > pattern (2006) while both browsing and searching through text-based
> pages.
> >
> > Introduction
> >
> > According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on the left side of the
> body
> > of a webpage when reading and fixate very little on information located
> on
> > the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F' viewing pattern with a few
> > horizontal scans, the first one being longer than the second and a long
> > vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are that users may miss
> > valuable information located on the right-hand side of the page.
> >
> > [image: "F" pattern, the red areas indicating more number of fixations]
> > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html
> >
> > *Figure 1.* The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen (2006).
> > (The red areas indicate the highest number of fixations, followed by
> yellow
> > and blue.)
> >
> > This study investigated whether the "F" pattern style of viewing was
> > dependent on the page content (text-based vs. picture-based) and/or on
> the
> > user task (searching vs. browsing). This information could play a
> valuable
> > role in determining where companies should place certain types of
> > information on web pages.
> >
> >
> > On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't have specific articles to cite but I have taken many design
> > > classes throughout the years, and have been taught that the top left
> is one
> > > of the best places for logo placement. This goes back to print copy as
> > > well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is the logo/title?
> Always top
> > > left. Western culture reads from left to right so we are used to
> starting at
> > > the top left with just about anything and then tend to read in a Z
> pattern
> > > (top left then across to right, then down to bottom left and across to
> the
> > > right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes the bottom right is a
> good
> > > place for a logo). Most design is because of print design and many
> studies
> > > were done throughout the years and standards were developed because of
> > > these. There are other places to put logos but it depends on the
> layout of
> > > the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid you use.
> > >
> > > I know everyone wants to be innovative but there are good reasons to
> have
> > > standards and it's better to use that creativity and innovation in
> other
> > > ways.
> > >
> > > Susie
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> > > discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Manish
> > > Pillewar
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
> > > To: discuss at ixda.org
> > > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in
> the
> > > topleft corner?
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I've been having these doubts since a long time. Glad
> > > this came up.
> > >
> > > I remember attending a UI Workshop during my college
> > > days. We were asked to create menu structure and the
> > > interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu at
> > > the left, i instinctively placed it on the right. I
> > > find this convenient and tend to think the users would
> > > be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster than
> > > whats on the left. I was surprised then to know that
> > > research says we all look to the left instead.
> > >
> > > Has it been scientifically proved that its the way the
> > > brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with our
> > > experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
> > > windows-left start menu,etc)?
> > >
> > > I'm trying to cite examples from the real world where
> > > we look for information to the right and not the left.
> > >
> > > Know of any?
> > >
> > > Still thinking,
> > > Manish
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------x---x-----------
> > > Hi Keiyu and Claude:
> > >
> > > Maybe it's also a contribution of layout's default
> > > value. If you do
> > > nothing, the logo just be put to there automatically.
> > > And also, both
> > > Asia
> > > and westerns newspapers or letter paper's logo tend to
> > > be at that
> > > place,
> > > this may, as the guys says, becomes the conventions
> > > of the logo
> > > layout.
> > > That's to say, it's the culture
> > > constrains/conventions, make it easier
> > > there
> > > to be found be people (1. people look for that for
> > > location
> > > information, 2.
> > > it be put there to meet the user's habit).
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > -- Jarod
> > >
> > > On 8/8/07, Claude Knaus <clyde7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Keiyu,
> > > >
> > > > In the book "Universal Principles of Design", there
> > > is one principle
> > > > (can´t
> > > > remember which one but it belongs to the Gestalt
> > > principles of
> > > design)
> > > > which
> > > > says that things placed at the top are likely to be
> > > considered to
> > > belong
> > > > to
> > > > the background, while things at the bottom belong to
> > > the foreground.
> > > >
> > > > So, placing a logo at the bottom would be more
> > > effective, from this
> > > point
> > > > of
> > > > view. When creating 3D demo applications, I used to
> > > place the logo
> > > bottom
> > > > left, obscuring the scenery there.
> > > >
> > > > -- Claude
> > > >
> > > > On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi everyone. First post here (excluding the job
> > > post a few days
> > > back).
> > > > > What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the
> > > logo need to be
> > > in
> > > > the
> > > > > top left corner of a page? Is this simply a
> > > consequence of
> > > convention?
> > > > > Have there been studies indicating that users get
> > > frustrated when
> > > the
> > > > > logo's
> > > > > placed on the right side? Or is there a more
> > > fundamental issue of
> > > > > usability?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm covering my bases in regards to:
> > > > >
> > > > > - The logo being a home button by including home
> > > in the global nav.
> > > > > - Making sure the design reflects the brand
> > > identity with enough
> > > > strength
> > > > > that in the event the logo's hidden (i.e. small
> > > screen) the brand
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > suffer.
> > > > > - Leveraging the unconventional method of
> > > right-side placement to
> > > its
> > > > > fullest (there's a lot you can do actually).
> > > > >
> > > > > What are some of your thoughts regarding this
> > > issue?
> > > > >
> > > > > Keiyu Kamatani
> > > > > HeathWallace (HK) Ltd
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks and Regards
> > > Manish Govind Pillewar
> > > Sr. User Interface Designer-UXD
> > > Bangalore-India
> > >
> > > Tel. +91 9880566951 (M)
> > > +91 80 41113967 (Eve.)
> > > Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___________________________________________________________
> > > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer.
> Try
> > > it
> > > now.
> > > http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
> > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ~ we
> >
> > -------------------------------------
> > n: will evans
> > t: user experience architect
> > e: wkevans4 at gmail.com
> >
> > -------------------------------------
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>
> --
> - Bryan
> http://www.bryanminihan.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

8 Aug 2007 - 9:44am
Bernie Monette
2005

We should be careful in dismissing conventions. They are powerful metaphors
that allow the content to get through without having to learn how to use the
system. A stop sign is an excellent example. A red octagon means the same
thing almost every time it is used: stop. Imagine if we changed them to
green or turned them into red circles: what would happen to traffic? There
is no creativity in them but who cares? It is more important to get where
you are going safely.

Another example of a navigation system is a book. The metaphors for a book
are well established and easy to use. So, rather than having to figure out
page numbers and chapter headings readers can enjoy the content. When was
the last time you had an argument about page numbers?

But who chose these conventions? How were they developed? It was probably
arbitrary and with little research.

In digital design, particularly the Web, we have very few conventions. So we
take advantage of the ones we have. For example 'Home' means the main or
start page. Why? Who knows-it is a convention. But no one has to think about
it. The logo is a link to the home page. Why? It seems like a good idea: it
is consistent, it gives logo extra duties, and now it is expected.

Also the page loads from left to right, we read (or many of us do) from left
to right. Also, in a visual hierarchy, the stuff at the top is more
important than the stuff at the bottom, therefore the upper left is an
important piece of real estate: why not put the logo there?

Cheers,

Bernie

--
Bernie Monette
InterActive Arts
Internet Presence Management
http://www.iaai.ca monette at iaai.ca 416 469 4337

> From: Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 22:09:10 +0800
> To: "Muntone, Jim" <Jim.Muntone at dowjones.com>
> Cc: <discuss at ixda.org>
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in thetopleft
> corner?
>
> Jim - Do you really think moving the logo would be as severe as painting a
> stop sign green?
>
> If the logo is properly hyperlinked and users understand that for this
> particular site/brand, the logo's on the right would they still be
> irritated?
>
> On 8/8/07, Muntone, Jim <Jim.Muntone at dowjones.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Whether right or wrong, we've also, (since the logo typically links to the
>> home page), drilled it into user's minds that clicking on whatever the
>> pretty graphic is at the top left of the page will get you home...
>>
>> And I've seen time and time again in tests that I've run that even with
>> specific navigation elements that are labeled "home" users will almost
>> always click on the logo before using a bread crumb trail or tab, to get
>> back home. And will often get very irritated when the logo is not
>> hyperlinked.
>>
>> That said, I think it's not a huge stretch to make the argument that the
>> logo goes top left because, (more important than some brand awareness
>> issue), it's also where user's expect to find a control to get back home and
>> the logo is the marker identified with that control.
>>
>> Moving it would be like painting a stop sign green.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
>> discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of W Evans
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:17 AM
>> To: Susie Robson
>> Cc: discuss at ixda.org
>> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in
>> thetopleft corner?
>>
>> Here is some research:
>>
>> http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html
>>
>> Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a Website
>>
>> By Sav Shrestha <sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu> & Kelsi Lenz <kmlenz at wichita.edu
>>>
>>
>> *Summary: *This article discusses users' visual scan paths of web pages
>> containing text and/or pictures while conducting browsing and searching
>> tasks. User performance on three usability tasks on an e-commerce website
>> is
>> described. Results show that users follow a fairly uniform scan path when
>> browsing through pictures, and a more random path while specifically
>> searching through them. Additionally, users appeared to follow Nielsen's
>> 'F'
>> pattern (2006) while both browsing and searching through text-based pages.
>>
>> Introduction
>>
>> According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on the left side of the
>> body
>> of a webpage when reading and fixate very little on information located on
>> the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F' viewing pattern with a few
>> horizontal scans, the first one being longer than the second and a long
>> vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are that users may miss
>> valuable information located on the right-hand side of the page.
>>
>> [image: "F" pattern, the red areas indicating more number of fixations]
>> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html
>>
>> *Figure 1.* The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen (2006).
>> (The red areas indicate the highest number of fixations, followed by
>> yellow
>> and blue.)
>>
>> This study investigated whether the "F" pattern style of viewing was
>> dependent on the page content (text-based vs. picture-based) and/or on the
>> user task (searching vs. browsing). This information could play a valuable
>> role in determining where companies should place certain types of
>> information on web pages.
>>
>>
>> On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't have specific articles to cite but I have taken many design
>>> classes throughout the years, and have been taught that the top left is
>> one
>>> of the best places for logo placement. This goes back to print copy as
>>> well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is the logo/title? Always
>> top
>>> left. Western culture reads from left to right so we are used to
>> starting at
>>> the top left with just about anything and then tend to read in a Z
>> pattern
>>> (top left then across to right, then down to bottom left and across to
>> the
>>> right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes the bottom right is a
>> good
>>> place for a logo). Most design is because of print design and many
>> studies
>>> were done throughout the years and standards were developed because of
>>> these. There are other places to put logos but it depends on the layout
>> of
>>> the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid you use.
>>>
>>> I know everyone wants to be innovative but there are good reasons to
>> have
>>> standards and it's better to use that creativity and innovation in other
>>> ways.
>>>
>>> Susie
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
>>> discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Manish
>>> Pillewar
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
>>> To: discuss at ixda.org
>>> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the
>>> topleft corner?
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I've been having these doubts since a long time. Glad
>>> this came up.
>>>
>>> I remember attending a UI Workshop during my college
>>> days. We were asked to create menu structure and the
>>> interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu at
>>> the left, i instinctively placed it on the right. I
>>> find this convenient and tend to think the users would
>>> be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster than
>>> whats on the left. I was surprised then to know that
>>> research says we all look to the left instead.
>>>
>>> Has it been scientifically proved that its the way the
>>> brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with our
>>> experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
>>> windows-left start menu,etc)?
>>>
>>> I'm trying to cite examples from the real world where
>>> we look for information to the right and not the left.
>>>
>>> Know of any?
>>>
>>> Still thinking,
>>> Manish
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------x---x-----------
>>> Hi Keiyu and Claude:
>>>
>>> Maybe it's also a contribution of layout's default
>>> value. If you do
>>> nothing, the logo just be put to there automatically.
>>> And also, both
>>> Asia
>>> and westerns newspapers or letter paper's logo tend to
>>> be at that
>>> place,
>>> this may, as the guys says, becomes the conventions
>>> of the logo
>>> layout.
>>> That's to say, it's the culture
>>> constrains/conventions, make it easier
>>> there
>>> to be found be people (1. people look for that for
>>> location
>>> information, 2.
>>> it be put there to meet the user's habit).
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> -- Jarod
>>>
>>> On 8/8/07, Claude Knaus <clyde7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Keiyu,
>>>>
>>>> In the book "Universal Principles of Design", there
>>> is one principle
>>>> (can´t
>>>> remember which one but it belongs to the Gestalt
>>> principles of
>>> design)
>>>> which
>>>> says that things placed at the top are likely to be
>>> considered to
>>> belong
>>>> to
>>>> the background, while things at the bottom belong to
>>> the foreground.
>>>>
>>>> So, placing a logo at the bottom would be more
>>> effective, from this
>>> point
>>>> of
>>>> view. When creating 3D demo applications, I used to
>>> place the logo
>>> bottom
>>>> left, obscuring the scenery there.
>>>>
>>>> -- Claude
>>>>
>>>> On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi everyone. First post here (excluding the job
>>> post a few days
>>> back).
>>>>> What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the
>>> logo need to be
>>> in
>>>> the
>>>>> top left corner of a page? Is this simply a
>>> consequence of
>>> convention?
>>>>> Have there been studies indicating that users get
>>> frustrated when
>>> the
>>>>> logo's
>>>>> placed on the right side? Or is there a more
>>> fundamental issue of
>>>>> usability?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm covering my bases in regards to:
>>>>>
>>>>> - The logo being a home button by including home
>>> in the global nav.
>>>>> - Making sure the design reflects the brand
>>> identity with enough
>>>> strength
>>>>> that in the event the logo's hidden (i.e. small
>>> screen) the brand
>>>> doesn't
>>>>> suffer.
>>>>> - Leveraging the unconventional method of
>>> right-side placement to
>>> its
>>>>> fullest (there's a lot you can do actually).
>>>>>
>>>>> What are some of your thoughts regarding this
>>> issue?
>>>>>
>>>>> Keiyu Kamatani
>>>>> HeathWallace (HK) Ltd
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks and Regards
>>> Manish Govind Pillewar
>>> Sr. User Interface Designer-UXD
>>> Bangalore-India
>>>
>>> Tel. +91 9880566951 (M)
>>> +91 80 41113967 (Eve.)
>>> Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try
>>> it
>>> now.
>>> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
>>> ________________________________________________________________
>>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>>> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>>> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
>>> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
>>> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>>> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
>>> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>>> ________________________________________________________________
>>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>>> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>>> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
>>> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
>>> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>>> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
>>> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ~ we
>>
>> -------------------------------------
>> n: will evans
>> t: user experience architect
>> e: wkevans4 at gmail.com
>>
>> -------------------------------------
>> ________________________________________________________________
>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
>> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
>> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
>> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>> ________________________________________________________________
>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
>> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
>> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
>> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

8 Aug 2007 - 9:48am
Keiyu Kamatani
2007

Just to include Maija's comment...

Hi,
Apologies for replying off-group ... corporate policies etc.

Anyhow, in reply to your query about logo placement, I just wanted to throw
my quick thoughts in the soup:

I have the gut feeling that as long as this type of branding is dealt with
in the top banner area, users really couldn't care less whether the logo was
on the right or on the left (because what other content would you put there,
on top of the page?) And, I have thought it good practice to include a
textual "home" link somewhere on the page, regardless of whether the logo
also is a home link.

I would imagine the bigger worry is to provide navigation mechanisms that
people who prefer to surf on smaller viewports will be able to view and use,
and visual or other clues as to what site they are on.
Cited from the Web Style Guide http://webstyleguide.com/page/length.html: "The
reader's loss of context is particularly troublesome when such basic
navigational elements as document titles, site identifiers, and links to
other site pages disappear off-screen while scrolling."

To take an example, the mentioned Audi website is completely useless to me
in terms of navigation, although I do see the nice welcome to audi -text on
the left :o)

Have a nice day,
Maija Granlund
--
Information specialist
Tel. +352 4379 6301
granlund at eib.org

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On 8/8/07, Bernie Monette <monette at iaai.ca> wrote:
>
> We should be careful in dismissing conventions. They are powerful
> metaphors
> that allow the content to get through without having to learn how to use
> the
> system. A stop sign is an excellent example. A red octagon means the same
> thing almost every time it is used: stop. Imagine if we changed them to
> green or turned them into red circles: what would happen to traffic? There
> is no creativity in them but who cares? It is more important to get where
> you are going safely.
>
> Another example of a navigation system is a book. The metaphors for a book
> are well established and easy to use. So, rather than having to figure out
> page numbers and chapter headings readers can enjoy the content. When was
> the last time you had an argument about page numbers?
>
> But who chose these conventions? How were they developed? It was probably
> arbitrary and with little research.
>
> In digital design, particularly the Web, we have very few conventions. So
> we
> take advantage of the ones we have. For example 'Home' means the main or
> start page. Why? Who knows-it is a convention. But no one has to think
> about
> it. The logo is a link to the home page. Why? It seems like a good idea:
> it
> is consistent, it gives logo extra duties, and now it is expected.
>
> Also the page loads from left to right, we read (or many of us do) from
> left
> to right. Also, in a visual hierarchy, the stuff at the top is more
> important than the stuff at the bottom, therefore the upper left is an
> important piece of real estate: why not put the logo there?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bernie
>
> --
> Bernie Monette
> InterActive Arts
> Internet Presence Management
> http://www.iaai.ca monette at iaai.ca 416 469 4337
>
> > From: Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
> > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 22:09:10 +0800
> > To: "Muntone, Jim" <Jim.Muntone at dowjones.com>
> > Cc: <discuss at ixda.org>
> > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in
> thetopleft
> > corner?
> >
> > Jim - Do you really think moving the logo would be as severe as painting
> a
> > stop sign green?
> >
> > If the logo is properly hyperlinked and users understand that for this
> > particular site/brand, the logo's on the right would they still be
> > irritated?
> >
> > On 8/8/07, Muntone, Jim <Jim.Muntone at dowjones.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Whether right or wrong, we've also, (since the logo typically links to
> the
> >> home page), drilled it into user's minds that clicking on whatever the
> >> pretty graphic is at the top left of the page will get you home...
> >>
> >> And I've seen time and time again in tests that I've run that even with
> >> specific navigation elements that are labeled "home" users will almost
> >> always click on the logo before using a bread crumb trail or tab, to
> get
> >> back home. And will often get very irritated when the logo is not
> >> hyperlinked.
> >>
> >> That said, I think it's not a huge stretch to make the argument that
> the
> >> logo goes top left because, (more important than some brand awareness
> >> issue), it's also where user's expect to find a control to get back
> home and
> >> the logo is the marker identified with that control.
> >>
> >> Moving it would be like painting a stop sign green.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> >> discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of W Evans
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:17 AM
> >> To: Susie Robson
> >> Cc: discuss at ixda.org
> >> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in
> >> thetopleft corner?
> >>
> >> Here is some research:
> >>
> >> http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html
> >>
> >> Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a Website
> >>
> >> By Sav Shrestha <sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu> & Kelsi Lenz <
> kmlenz at wichita.edu
> >>>
> >>
> >> *Summary: *This article discusses users' visual scan paths of web pages
> >> containing text and/or pictures while conducting browsing and searching
> >> tasks. User performance on three usability tasks on an e-commerce
> website
> >> is
> >> described. Results show that users follow a fairly uniform scan path
> when
> >> browsing through pictures, and a more random path while specifically
> >> searching through them. Additionally, users appeared to follow
> Nielsen's
> >> 'F'
> >> pattern (2006) while both browsing and searching through text-based
> pages.
> >>
> >> Introduction
> >>
> >> According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on the left side of the
> >> body
> >> of a webpage when reading and fixate very little on information located
> on
> >> the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F' viewing pattern with a few
> >> horizontal scans, the first one being longer than the second and a long
> >> vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are that users may miss
> >> valuable information located on the right-hand side of the page.
> >>
> >> [image: "F" pattern, the red areas indicating more number of fixations]
> >> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html
> >>
> >> *Figure 1.* The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen (2006).
> >> (The red areas indicate the highest number of fixations, followed by
> >> yellow
> >> and blue.)
> >>
> >> This study investigated whether the "F" pattern style of viewing was
> >> dependent on the page content (text-based vs. picture-based) and/or on
> the
> >> user task (searching vs. browsing). This information could play a
> valuable
> >> role in determining where companies should place certain types of
> >> information on web pages.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I don't have specific articles to cite but I have taken many design
> >>> classes throughout the years, and have been taught that the top left
> is
> >> one
> >>> of the best places for logo placement. This goes back to print copy as
> >>> well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is the logo/title?
> Always
> >> top
> >>> left. Western culture reads from left to right so we are used to
> >> starting at
> >>> the top left with just about anything and then tend to read in a Z
> >> pattern
> >>> (top left then across to right, then down to bottom left and across to
> >> the
> >>> right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes the bottom right is a
> >> good
> >>> place for a logo). Most design is because of print design and many
> >> studies
> >>> were done throughout the years and standards were developed because of
> >>> these. There are other places to put logos but it depends on the
> layout
> >> of
> >>> the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid you use.
> >>>
> >>> I know everyone wants to be innovative but there are good reasons to
> >> have
> >>> standards and it's better to use that creativity and innovation in
> other
> >>> ways.
> >>>
> >>> Susie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> >>> discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Manish
> >>> Pillewar
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
> >>> To: discuss at ixda.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in
> the
> >>> topleft corner?
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I've been having these doubts since a long time. Glad
> >>> this came up.
> >>>
> >>> I remember attending a UI Workshop during my college
> >>> days. We were asked to create menu structure and the
> >>> interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu at
> >>> the left, i instinctively placed it on the right. I
> >>> find this convenient and tend to think the users would
> >>> be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster than
> >>> whats on the left. I was surprised then to know that
> >>> research says we all look to the left instead.
> >>>
> >>> Has it been scientifically proved that its the way the
> >>> brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with our
> >>> experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
> >>> windows-left start menu,etc)?
> >>>
> >>> I'm trying to cite examples from the real world where
> >>> we look for information to the right and not the left.
> >>>
> >>> Know of any?
> >>>
> >>> Still thinking,
> >>> Manish
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----------x---x-----------
> >>> Hi Keiyu and Claude:
> >>>
> >>> Maybe it's also a contribution of layout's default
> >>> value. If you do
> >>> nothing, the logo just be put to there automatically.
> >>> And also, both
> >>> Asia
> >>> and westerns newspapers or letter paper's logo tend to
> >>> be at that
> >>> place,
> >>> this may, as the guys says, becomes the conventions
> >>> of the logo
> >>> layout.
> >>> That's to say, it's the culture
> >>> constrains/conventions, make it easier
> >>> there
> >>> to be found be people (1. people look for that for
> >>> location
> >>> information, 2.
> >>> it be put there to meet the user's habit).
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> -- Jarod
> >>>
> >>> On 8/8/07, Claude Knaus <clyde7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Keiyu,
> >>>>
> >>>> In the book "Universal Principles of Design", there
> >>> is one principle
> >>>> (can´t
> >>>> remember which one but it belongs to the Gestalt
> >>> principles of
> >>> design)
> >>>> which
> >>>> says that things placed at the top are likely to be
> >>> considered to
> >>> belong
> >>>> to
> >>>> the background, while things at the bottom belong to
> >>> the foreground.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, placing a logo at the bottom would be more
> >>> effective, from this
> >>> point
> >>>> of
> >>>> view. When creating 3D demo applications, I used to
> >>> place the logo
> >>> bottom
> >>>> left, obscuring the scenery there.
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Claude
> >>>>
> >>>> On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi everyone. First post here (excluding the job
> >>> post a few days
> >>> back).
> >>>>> What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the
> >>> logo need to be
> >>> in
> >>>> the
> >>>>> top left corner of a page? Is this simply a
> >>> consequence of
> >>> convention?
> >>>>> Have there been studies indicating that users get
> >>> frustrated when
> >>> the
> >>>>> logo's
> >>>>> placed on the right side? Or is there a more
> >>> fundamental issue of
> >>>>> usability?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm covering my bases in regards to:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - The logo being a home button by including home
> >>> in the global nav.
> >>>>> - Making sure the design reflects the brand
> >>> identity with enough
> >>>> strength
> >>>>> that in the event the logo's hidden (i.e. small
> >>> screen) the brand
> >>>> doesn't
> >>>>> suffer.
> >>>>> - Leveraging the unconventional method of
> >>> right-side placement to
> >>> its
> >>>>> fullest (there's a lot you can do actually).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What are some of your thoughts regarding this
> >>> issue?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Keiyu Kamatani
> >>>>> HeathWallace (HK) Ltd
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks and Regards
> >>> Manish Govind Pillewar
> >>> Sr. User Interface Designer-UXD
> >>> Bangalore-India
> >>>
> >>> Tel. +91 9880566951 (M)
> >>> +91 80 41113967 (Eve.)
> >>> Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface :-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>> Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer.
> Try
> >>> it
> >>> now.
> >>> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
> >>> ________________________________________________________________
> >>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
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> >>> ________________________________________________________________
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> >>> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> ~ we
> >>
> >> -------------------------------------
> >> n: will evans
> >> t: user experience architect
> >> e: wkevans4 at gmail.com
> >>
> >> -------------------------------------
> >> ________________________________________________________________
> >> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> >> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> >> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> >> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
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> >> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> >> ________________________________________________________________
> >> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> >> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> >> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> >> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
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> >>
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
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> >
>
>
>

8 Aug 2007 - 10:18am
bminihan
2007

Actually, on our content pages we have a low-profile banner that puts the logo on the Right (content owners can use either a logo or other image) and the name of the application in the upper left. Overwhelmingly, users click *whatever* is in the upper left corner. So yes, our data shows a knee-jerk instinct to click the upper left corner to get home, and doesn't really say *the logo* has to be there. I have this habit myself, and on sites that don't seem to have anything there, I'll look for it somewhere else - the top right corner, most likely =].

---- Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com> wrote:
> So this suggests, as one of my colleagues mentioned, that the logo is very
> much a "symbol of home."
>
> Bryan - Your metrics clearly indicate that the logo's used as a call to
> action for home, but it really doesn't suggest anything regarding
> positioning.
>
> If the header area and navigation fully support different logo (with home
> hyperlink) positions, and at the same time lends itself to brand consistency
> I think it would work quite well. Naturally, we'll know for sure once the
> site launches. :)
>
> On 8/8/07, bjminihan at nc.rr.com <bjminihan at nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > I would agree we've also seen studies demonstrate that users prefer
> > clicking "the pretty graphic" or whatever is in the upper left corner, even
> > over an explicit Home button or breadcrumb trail. We added a Home button to
> > our portal even though the logo did the same, and have web metrics and user
> > study evidence that we can remove it - practically no one ever clicks
> > Home. Out of 60,000 users a month, we get about 50 clicks on the home
> > button and a few thousand on the logo (I'm a little off on the numbers, but
> > that's the right order of magnitude).
> >

8 Aug 2007 - 10:37am
Mark Schraad
2006

To that end, I have worked on a few sites where we made the entire header/mast head hot and a direct link to home.

ark

On Wednesday, August 08, 2007, at 11:18AM, <bjminihan at nc.rr.com> wrote:
>Actually, on our content pages we have a low-profile banner that puts the logo on the Right (content owners can use either a logo or other image) and the name of the application in the upper left. Overwhelmingly, users click *whatever* is in the upper left corner. So yes, our data shows a knee-jerk instinct to click the upper left corner to get home, and doesn't really say *the logo* has to be there. I have this habit myself, and on sites that don't seem to have anything there, I'll look for it somewhere else - the top right corner, most likely =].
>
>---- Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> So this suggests, as one of my colleagues mentioned, that the logo is very
>> much a "symbol of home."
>>
>> Bryan - Your metrics clearly indicate that the logo's used as a call to
>> action for home, but it really doesn't suggest anything regarding
>> positioning.
>>
>> If the header area and navigation fully support different logo (with home
>> hyperlink) positions, and at the same time lends itself to brand consistency
>> I think it would work quite well. Naturally, we'll know for sure once the
>> site launches. :)
>>
>> On 8/8/07, bjminihan at nc.rr.com <bjminihan at nc.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I would agree we've also seen studies demonstrate that users prefer
>> > clicking "the pretty graphic" or whatever is in the upper left corner, even
>> > over an explicit Home button or breadcrumb trail. We added a Home button to
>> > our portal even though the logo did the same, and have web metrics and user
>> > study evidence that we can remove it - practically no one ever clicks
>> > Home. Out of 60,000 users a month, we get about 50 clicks on the home
>> > button and a few thousand on the logo (I'm a little off on the numbers, but
>> > that's the right order of magnitude).
>> >
>
>________________________________________________________________
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>

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