Why do we insist on placing the logo in the topleft corner?

7 Aug 2007 - 8:10pm
7 years ago
9 replies
514 reads
bminihan
2007

For internal apps, our general guidance is: Logo in the upper left, Search
in the upper right (when available). Some folks like to spend lots of money
on an unrecognizable/meaningless logo - for those we recommend just the name
of the application and/or page in the upper left (more obvious) and the logo
(if we don't tell them to get rid of it) in the upper right. I'm thinking
along the lines of a giant purple leopard that's supposed to represent the
internal fleet management team (we've had worse).

I agree with Steve, in that the upper left is the easiest place for people
to recognize where they are, without taking up space where people would look
for other things (like search, primary nav, etc).

- Bryan
http://www.bryanminihan.com

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Baty
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:00 PM
To: Keiyu Kamatani
Cc: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the
topleft corner?

Keiyu,

"What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the logo need to be in the
top left corner of a page? Is this simply a consequence of convention?
Have there been studies indicating that users get frustrated when the logo's
placed on the right side? Or is there a more fundamental issue of
usability?"

For us it's a question of providing a very fast, visual cue to the visitor
of where they've landed. Top-left loads early; is where the eye is (/tends
to be) drawn; and follows a reasonably well-established convention. Nothing
too mystical or dogmatic about it.

Regards,

Steve Baty

----------------------------------------------
Steve 'Doc' Baty B.Sc (Maths), M.EC, MBA
Director, User Experience Strategy
Red Square
P: +612 8289 4930
M: +61 417 061 292

Member, UPA - www.upassoc.org
Member, IxDA - www.ixda.org
Member, Web Standards Group - www.webstandardsgroup.org
Columnist, UXMatters - www.uxmatters.com
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
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Comments

8 Aug 2007 - 8:09am
Susie Robson
2004

I don't have specific articles to cite but I have taken many design classes throughout the years, and have been taught that the top left is one of the best places for logo placement. This goes back to print copy as well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is the logo/title? Always top left. Western culture reads from left to right so we are used to starting at the top left with just about anything and then tend to read in a Z pattern (top left then across to right, then down to bottom left and across to the right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes the bottom right is a good place for a logo). Most design is because of print design and many studies were done throughout the years and standards were developed because of these. There are other places to put logos but it depends on the layout of the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid you use.

I know everyone wants to be innovative but there are good reasons to have standards and it's better to use that creativity and innovation in other ways.

Susie

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Manish Pillewar
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
To: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the topleft corner?

Hi,

I've been having these doubts since a long time. Glad
this came up.

I remember attending a UI Workshop during my college
days. We were asked to create menu structure and the
interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu at
the left, i instinctively placed it on the right. I
find this convenient and tend to think the users would
be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster than
whats on the left. I was surprised then to know that
research says we all look to the left instead.

Has it been scientifically proved that its the way the
brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with our
experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
windows-left start menu,etc)?

I'm trying to cite examples from the real world where
we look for information to the right and not the left.

Know of any?

Still thinking,
Manish

----------x---x-----------
Hi Keiyu and Claude:

Maybe it's also a contribution of layout's default
value. If you do
nothing, the logo just be put to there automatically.
And also, both
Asia
and westerns newspapers or letter paper's logo tend to
be at that
place,
this may, as the guys says, becomes the conventions
of the logo
layout.
That's to say, it's the culture
constrains/conventions, make it easier
there
to be found be people (1. people look for that for
location
information, 2.
it be put there to meet the user's habit).

Cheers
-- Jarod

On 8/8/07, Claude Knaus <clyde7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Keiyu,
>
> In the book "Universal Principles of Design", there
is one principle
> (can´t
> remember which one but it belongs to the Gestalt
principles of
design)
> which
> says that things placed at the top are likely to be
considered to
belong
> to
> the background, while things at the bottom belong to
the foreground.
>
> So, placing a logo at the bottom would be more
effective, from this
point
> of
> view. When creating 3D demo applications, I used to
place the logo
bottom
> left, obscuring the scenery there.
>
> -- Claude
>
> On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone. First post here (excluding the job
post a few days
back).
> > What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the
logo need to be
in
> the
> > top left corner of a page? Is this simply a
consequence of
convention?
> > Have there been studies indicating that users get
frustrated when
the
> > logo's
> > placed on the right side? Or is there a more
fundamental issue of
> > usability?
> >
> > I'm covering my bases in regards to:
> >
> > - The logo being a home button by including home
in the global nav.
> > - Making sure the design reflects the brand
identity with enough
> strength
> > that in the event the logo's hidden (i.e. small
screen) the brand
> doesn't
> > suffer.
> > - Leveraging the unconventional method of
right-side placement to
its
> > fullest (there's a lot you can do actually).
> >
> > What are some of your thoughts regarding this
issue?
> >
> > Keiyu Kamatani
> > HeathWallace (HK) Ltd

Thanks and Regards
Manish Govind Pillewar
Sr. User Interface Designer-UXD
Bangalore-India

Tel. +91 9880566951 (M)
+91 80 41113967 (Eve.)
Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface :-)

___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
now.
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
Questions .................. list at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

8 Aug 2007 - 8:16am
SemanticWill
2007

Here is some research:

http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html

Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a Website

By Sav Shrestha <sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu> & Kelsi Lenz <kmlenz at wichita.edu>

*Summary: *This article discusses users' visual scan paths of web pages
containing text and/or pictures while conducting browsing and searching
tasks. User performance on three usability tasks on an e-commerce website is
described. Results show that users follow a fairly uniform scan path when
browsing through pictures, and a more random path while specifically
searching through them. Additionally, users appeared to follow Nielsen's 'F'
pattern (2006) while both browsing and searching through text-based pages.

Introduction

According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on the left side of the body
of a webpage when reading and fixate very little on information located on
the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F' viewing pattern with a few
horizontal scans, the first one being longer than the second and a long
vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are that users may miss
valuable information located on the right-hand side of the page.

[image: "F" pattern, the red areas indicating more number of fixations]
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html

*Figure 1.* The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen (2006).
(The red areas indicate the highest number of fixations, followed by yellow
and blue.)

This study investigated whether the "F" pattern style of viewing was
dependent on the page content (text-based vs. picture-based) and/or on the
user task (searching vs. browsing). This information could play a valuable
role in determining where companies should place certain types of
information on web pages.

On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com> wrote:
>
> I don't have specific articles to cite but I have taken many design
> classes throughout the years, and have been taught that the top left is one
> of the best places for logo placement. This goes back to print copy as
> well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is the logo/title? Always top
> left. Western culture reads from left to right so we are used to starting at
> the top left with just about anything and then tend to read in a Z pattern
> (top left then across to right, then down to bottom left and across to the
> right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes the bottom right is a good
> place for a logo). Most design is because of print design and many studies
> were done throughout the years and standards were developed because of
> these. There are other places to put logos but it depends on the layout of
> the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid you use.
>
> I know everyone wants to be innovative but there are good reasons to have
> standards and it's better to use that creativity and innovation in other
> ways.
>
> Susie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Manish
> Pillewar
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
> To: discuss at ixda.org
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the
> topleft corner?
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been having these doubts since a long time. Glad
> this came up.
>
> I remember attending a UI Workshop during my college
> days. We were asked to create menu structure and the
> interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu at
> the left, i instinctively placed it on the right. I
> find this convenient and tend to think the users would
> be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster than
> whats on the left. I was surprised then to know that
> research says we all look to the left instead.
>
> Has it been scientifically proved that its the way the
> brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with our
> experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
> windows-left start menu,etc)?
>
> I'm trying to cite examples from the real world where
> we look for information to the right and not the left.
>
> Know of any?
>
> Still thinking,
> Manish
>
>
> ----------x---x-----------
> Hi Keiyu and Claude:
>
> Maybe it's also a contribution of layout's default
> value. If you do
> nothing, the logo just be put to there automatically.
> And also, both
> Asia
> and westerns newspapers or letter paper's logo tend to
> be at that
> place,
> this may, as the guys says, becomes the conventions
> of the logo
> layout.
> That's to say, it's the culture
> constrains/conventions, make it easier
> there
> to be found be people (1. people look for that for
> location
> information, 2.
> it be put there to meet the user's habit).
>
> Cheers
> -- Jarod
>
> On 8/8/07, Claude Knaus <clyde7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Keiyu,
> >
> > In the book "Universal Principles of Design", there
> is one principle
> > (can´t
> > remember which one but it belongs to the Gestalt
> principles of
> design)
> > which
> > says that things placed at the top are likely to be
> considered to
> belong
> > to
> > the background, while things at the bottom belong to
> the foreground.
> >
> > So, placing a logo at the bottom would be more
> effective, from this
> point
> > of
> > view. When creating 3D demo applications, I used to
> place the logo
> bottom
> > left, obscuring the scenery there.
> >
> > -- Claude
> >
> > On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi everyone. First post here (excluding the job
> post a few days
> back).
> > > What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the
> logo need to be
> in
> > the
> > > top left corner of a page? Is this simply a
> consequence of
> convention?
> > > Have there been studies indicating that users get
> frustrated when
> the
> > > logo's
> > > placed on the right side? Or is there a more
> fundamental issue of
> > > usability?
> > >
> > > I'm covering my bases in regards to:
> > >
> > > - The logo being a home button by including home
> in the global nav.
> > > - Making sure the design reflects the brand
> identity with enough
> > strength
> > > that in the event the logo's hidden (i.e. small
> screen) the brand
> > doesn't
> > > suffer.
> > > - Leveraging the unconventional method of
> right-side placement to
> its
> > > fullest (there's a lot you can do actually).
> > >
> > > What are some of your thoughts regarding this
> issue?
> > >
> > > Keiyu Kamatani
> > > HeathWallace (HK) Ltd
>
>
> Thanks and Regards
> Manish Govind Pillewar
> Sr. User Interface Designer-UXD
> Bangalore-India
>
> Tel. +91 9880566951 (M)
> +91 80 41113967 (Eve.)
> Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface :-)
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try
> it
> now.
> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

--
~ we

-------------------------------------
n: will evans
t: user experience architect
e: wkevans4 at gmail.com

-------------------------------------

8 Aug 2007 - 8:19am
Susie Robson
2004

FYI-I should have been specific about the Z pattern when reading-that is from the hard copy (such as magazine ads), not web sites.

Susie

________________________________

From: W Evans [mailto:wkevans4 at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:17 AM
To: Susie Robson
Cc: Manish Pillewar; discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the topleft corner?

Here is some research:

http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html

Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a Website

By Sav Shrestha <mailto:sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu> & Kelsi Lenz <mailto:kmlenz at wichita.edu>

Summary: This article discusses users' visual scan paths of web pages containing text and/or pictures while conducting browsing and searching tasks. User performance on three usability tasks on an e-commerce website is described. Results show that users follow a fairly uniform scan path when browsing through pictures, and a more random path while specifically searching through them. Additionally, users appeared to follow Nielsen's 'F' pattern (2006) while both browsing and searching through text-based pages.

Introduction

According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on the left side of the body of a webpage when reading and fixate very little on information located on the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F' viewing pattern with a few horizontal scans, the first one being longer than the second and a long vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are that users may miss valuable information located on the right-hand side of the page.

<http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/images/eyetracking_corporate_site_about_us.png>
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html

Figure 1. The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen (2006).
(The red areas indicate the highest number of fixations, followed by yellow and blue.)

This study investigated whether the "F" pattern style of viewing was dependent on the page content (text-based vs. picture-based) and/or on the user task (searching vs. browsing). This information could play a valuable role in determining where companies should place certain types of information on web pages.

On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com > wrote:

I don't have specific articles to cite but I have taken many design classes throughout the years, and have been taught that the top left is one of the best places for logo placement. This goes back to print copy as well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is the logo/title? Always top left. Western culture reads from left to right so we are used to starting at the top left with just about anything and then tend to read in a Z pattern (top left then across to right, then down to bottom left and across to the right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes the bottom right is a good place for a logo). Most design is because of print design and many studies were done throughout the years and standards were developed because of these. There are other places to put logos but it depends on the layout of the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid you use.

I know everyone wants to be innovative but there are good reasons to have standards and it's better to use that creativity and innovation in other ways.

Susie

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com ] On Behalf Of Manish Pillewar
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
To: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the topleft corner?

Hi,

I've been having these doubts since a long time. Glad
this came up.

I remember attending a UI Workshop during my college
days. We were asked to create menu structure and the
interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu at
the left, i instinctively placed it on the right. I
find this convenient and tend to think the users would
be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster than
whats on the left. I was surprised then to know that
research says we all look to the left instead.

Has it been scientifically proved that its the way the
brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with our
experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
windows-left start menu,etc)?

I'm trying to cite examples from the real world where
we look for information to the right and not the left.

Know of any?

Still thinking,
Manish

----------x---x-----------
Hi Keiyu and Claude:

Maybe it's also a contribution of layout's default
value. If you do
nothing, the logo just be put to there automatically.
And also, both
Asia
and westerns newspapers or letter paper's logo tend to
be at that
place,
this may, as the guys says, becomes the conventions
of the logo
layout.
That's to say, it's the culture
constrains/conventions, make it easier
there
to be found be people (1. people look for that for
location
information, 2.
it be put there to meet the user's habit).

Cheers
-- Jarod

On 8/8/07, Claude Knaus < clyde7 at gmail.com <mailto:clyde7 at gmail.com> > wrote:
>
> Hi Keiyu,
>
> In the book "Universal Principles of Design", there
is one principle
> (can´t
> remember which one but it belongs to the Gestalt
principles of
design)
> which
> says that things placed at the top are likely to be
considered to
belong
> to
> the background, while things at the bottom belong to
the foreground.
>
> So, placing a logo at the bottom would be more
effective, from this
point
> of
> view. When creating 3D demo applications, I used to
place the logo
bottom
> left, obscuring the scenery there.
>
> -- Claude
>
> On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone. First post here (excluding the job
post a few days
back).
> > What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the
logo need to be
in
> the
> > top left corner of a page? Is this simply a
consequence of
convention?
> > Have there been studies indicating that users get
frustrated when
the
> > logo's
> > placed on the right side? Or is there a more
fundamental issue of
> > usability?
> >
> > I'm covering my bases in regards to:
> >
> > - The logo being a home button by including home
in the global nav.
> > - Making sure the design reflects the brand
identity with enough
> strength
> > that in the event the logo's hidden (i.e. small
screen) the brand
> doesn't
> > suffer.
> > - Leveraging the unconventional method of
right-side placement to
its
> > fullest (there's a lot you can do actually).
> >
> > What are some of your thoughts regarding this
issue?
> >
> > Keiyu Kamatani
> > HeathWallace (HK) Ltd

Thanks and Regards
Manish Govind Pillewar
Sr. User Interface Designer-UXD
Bangalore-India

Tel. +91 9880566951 (M)
+91 80 41113967 (Eve.)
Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface :-)

___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
now.
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
Questions .................. list at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
Questions .................. list at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

--
~ we

-------------------------------------
n: will evans
t: user experience architect
e: wkevans4 at gmail.com

-------------------------------------

8 Aug 2007 - 8:50am
Claude Knaus
2007

Interestingly, there is not much color on the logo.

My interpretation would be that the eye is avoiding the logo, knowing that
what can be found there is nothing but a logo.

-- Claude

On 8/8/07, W Evans <wkevans4 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Here is some research:
>
> http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html
>
> Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a Website
>
> By Sav Shrestha <sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu> & Kelsi Lenz <kmlenz at wichita.edu
> >
>
> *Summary: *This article discusses users' visual scan paths of web pages
> containing text and/or pictures while conducting browsing and searching
> tasks. User performance on three usability tasks on an e-commerce website
> is
> described. Results show that users follow a fairly uniform scan path when
> browsing through pictures, and a more random path while specifically
> searching through them. Additionally, users appeared to follow Nielsen's
> 'F'
> pattern (2006) while both browsing and searching through text-based pages.
>
> Introduction
>
> According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on the left side of the
> body
> of a webpage when reading and fixate very little on information located on
> the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F' viewing pattern with a few
> horizontal scans, the first one being longer than the second and a long
> vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are that users may miss
> valuable information located on the right-hand side of the page.
>
> [image: "F" pattern, the red areas indicating more number of fixations]
> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html
>
> *Figure 1.* The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen (2006).
> (The red areas indicate the highest number of fixations, followed by
> yellow
> and blue.)
>
> This study investigated whether the "F" pattern style of viewing was
> dependent on the page content (text-based vs. picture-based) and/or on the
> user task (searching vs. browsing). This information could play a valuable
> role in determining where companies should place certain types of
> information on web pages.
>
>
> On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com> wrote:
> >
> > I don't have specific articles to cite but I have taken many design
> > classes throughout the years, and have been taught that the top left is
> one
> > of the best places for logo placement. This goes back to print copy as
> > well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is the logo/title? Always
> top
> > left. Western culture reads from left to right so we are used to
> starting at
> > the top left with just about anything and then tend to read in a Z
> pattern
> > (top left then across to right, then down to bottom left and across to
> the
> > right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes the bottom right is a
> good
> > place for a logo). Most design is because of print design and many
> studies
> > were done throughout the years and standards were developed because of
> > these. There are other places to put logos but it depends on the layout
> of
> > the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid you use.
> >
> > I know everyone wants to be innovative but there are good reasons to
> have
> > standards and it's better to use that creativity and innovation in other
> > ways.
> >
> > Susie
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> > discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Manish
> > Pillewar
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
> > To: discuss at ixda.org
> > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the
> > topleft corner?
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've been having these doubts since a long time. Glad
> > this came up.
> >
> > I remember attending a UI Workshop during my college
> > days. We were asked to create menu structure and the
> > interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu at
> > the left, i instinctively placed it on the right. I
> > find this convenient and tend to think the users would
> > be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster than
> > whats on the left. I was surprised then to know that
> > research says we all look to the left instead.
> >
> > Has it been scientifically proved that its the way the
> > brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with our
> > experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
> > windows-left start menu,etc)?
> >
> > I'm trying to cite examples from the real world where
> > we look for information to the right and not the left.
> >
> > Know of any?
> >
> > Still thinking,
> > Manish
> >
> >
> > ----------x---x-----------
> > Hi Keiyu and Claude:
> >
> > Maybe it's also a contribution of layout's default
> > value. If you do
> > nothing, the logo just be put to there automatically.
> > And also, both
> > Asia
> > and westerns newspapers or letter paper's logo tend to
> > be at that
> > place,
> > this may, as the guys says, becomes the conventions
> > of the logo
> > layout.
> > That's to say, it's the culture
> > constrains/conventions, make it easier
> > there
> > to be found be people (1. people look for that for
> > location
> > information, 2.
> > it be put there to meet the user's habit).
> >
> > Cheers
> > -- Jarod
> >
> > On 8/8/07, Claude Knaus <clyde7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Keiyu,
> > >
> > > In the book "Universal Principles of Design", there
> > is one principle
> > > (can´t
> > > remember which one but it belongs to the Gestalt
> > principles of
> > design)
> > > which
> > > says that things placed at the top are likely to be
> > considered to
> > belong
> > > to
> > > the background, while things at the bottom belong to
> > the foreground.
> > >
> > > So, placing a logo at the bottom would be more
> > effective, from this
> > point
> > > of
> > > view. When creating 3D demo applications, I used to
> > place the logo
> > bottom
> > > left, obscuring the scenery there.
> > >
> > > -- Claude
> > >
> > > On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone. First post here (excluding the job
> > post a few days
> > back).
> > > > What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the
> > logo need to be
> > in
> > > the
> > > > top left corner of a page? Is this simply a
> > consequence of
> > convention?
> > > > Have there been studies indicating that users get
> > frustrated when
> > the
> > > > logo's
> > > > placed on the right side? Or is there a more
> > fundamental issue of
> > > > usability?
> > > >
> > > > I'm covering my bases in regards to:
> > > >
> > > > - The logo being a home button by including home
> > in the global nav.
> > > > - Making sure the design reflects the brand
> > identity with enough
> > > strength
> > > > that in the event the logo's hidden (i.e. small
> > screen) the brand
> > > doesn't
> > > > suffer.
> > > > - Leveraging the unconventional method of
> > right-side placement to
> > its
> > > > fullest (there's a lot you can do actually).
> > > >
> > > > What are some of your thoughts regarding this
> > issue?
> > > >
> > > > Keiyu Kamatani
> > > > HeathWallace (HK) Ltd
> >
> >
> > Thanks and Regards
> > Manish Govind Pillewar
> > Sr. User Interface Designer-UXD
> > Bangalore-India
> >
> > Tel. +91 9880566951 (M)
> > +91 80 41113967 (Eve.)
> > Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try
> > it
> > now.
> > http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ~ we
>
> -------------------------------------
> n: will evans
> t: user experience architect
> e: wkevans4 at gmail.com
>
> -------------------------------------
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

8 Aug 2007 - 8:52am
Keiyu Kamatani
2007

Thanks for all the replies. I have to admit I do agree with most points
raised here, but I can't help but feel that we're basing a lot of this on
conventions and assumptions. I readily agree that people expect to see the
logo in the top left, but unlike more established conventions I'm not sold
on the doomsday consequence scenario. Increasingly well-educated (and
savvy) surfers means they are more capable and quick-learning. On the
flip-side, this would suggest less tolerance for poorly implemented ideas,
which leads me to my final point: if I designed a site with the logo on the
right, and backed my decision with proper research and usability principles
am I really making the wrong choice? Wouldn't users quickly learn and find
that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the logo on the right, and
perhaps help differentiate my clients brand in a positive manner? At this
point I'm leaning towards yes...

Keiyu

On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com> wrote:
>
> FYI-I should have been specific about the Z pattern when reading-that is
> from the hard copy (such as magazine ads), not web sites.
>
>
>
> Susie
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: W Evans [mailto:wkevans4 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:17 AM
> To: Susie Robson
> Cc: Manish Pillewar; discuss at ixda.org
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the
> topleft corner?
>
>
>
> Here is some research:
>
> http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html
>
> Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a Website
>
> By Sav Shrestha <mailto:sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu> & Kelsi Lenz <mailto:
> kmlenz at wichita.edu>
>
> Summary: This article discusses users' visual scan paths
> of web pages containing text and/or pictures while conducting browsing and
> searching tasks. User performance on three usability tasks on an e-commerce
> website is described. Results show that users follow a fairly uniform scan
> path when browsing through pictures, and a more random path while
> specifically searching through them. Additionally, users appeared to follow
> Nielsen's 'F' pattern (2006) while both browsing and searching through
> text-based pages.
>
> Introduction
>
> According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on the left side of the
> body of a webpage when reading and fixate very little on information located
> on the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F' viewing pattern with a few
> horizontal scans, the first one being longer than the second and a long
> vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are that users may miss
> valuable information located on the right-hand side of the page.
>
> <
> http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/images/eyetracking_corporate_site_about_us.png
> >
> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html
>
> Figure 1. The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen (2006).
> (The red areas indicate the highest number of fixations, followed by
> yellow and blue.)
>
> This study investigated whether the "F" pattern style of viewing was
> dependent on the page content (text-based vs. picture-based) and/or on the
> user task (searching vs. browsing). This information could play a valuable
> role in determining where companies should place certain types of
> information on web pages.
>
>
>
> On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com > wrote:
>
> I don't have specific articles to cite but I have taken many design
> classes throughout the years, and have been taught that the top left is one
> of the best places for logo placement. This goes back to print copy as
> well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is the logo/title? Always top
> left. Western culture reads from left to right so we are used to starting at
> the top left with just about anything and then tend to read in a Z pattern
> (top left then across to right, then down to bottom left and across to the
> right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes the bottom right is a good
> place for a logo). Most design is because of print design and many studies
> were done throughout the years and standards were developed because of
> these. There are other places to put logos but it depends on the layout of
> the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid you use.
>
> I know everyone wants to be innovative but there are good reasons to have
> standards and it's better to use that creativity and innovation in other
> ways.
>
> Susie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:
> discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com ] On Behalf Of Manish
> Pillewar
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
> To: discuss at ixda.org
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on placing the logo in the
> topleft corner?
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been having these doubts since a long time. Glad
> this came up.
>
> I remember attending a UI Workshop during my college
> days. We were asked to create menu structure and the
> interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu at
> the left, i instinctively placed it on the right. I
> find this convenient and tend to think the users would
> be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster than
> whats on the left. I was surprised then to know that
> research says we all look to the left instead.
>
> Has it been scientifically proved that its the way the
> brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with our
> experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
> windows-left start menu,etc)?
>
> I'm trying to cite examples from the real world where
> we look for information to the right and not the left.
>
> Know of any?
>
> Still thinking,
> Manish
>
>
> ----------x---x-----------
> Hi Keiyu and Claude:
>
> Maybe it's also a contribution of layout's default
> value. If you do
> nothing, the logo just be put to there automatically.
> And also, both
> Asia
> and westerns newspapers or letter paper's logo tend to
> be at that
> place,
> this may, as the guys says, becomes the conventions
> of the logo
> layout.
> That's to say, it's the culture
> constrains/conventions, make it easier
> there
> to be found be people (1. people look for that for
> location
> information, 2.
> it be put there to meet the user's habit).
>
> Cheers
> -- Jarod
>
> On 8/8/07, Claude Knaus < clyde7 at gmail.com <mailto:clyde7 at gmail.com> >
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Keiyu,
> >
> > In the book "Universal Principles of Design", there
> is one principle
> > (can´t
> > remember which one but it belongs to the Gestalt
> principles of
> design)
> > which
> > says that things placed at the top are likely to be
> considered to
> belong
> > to
> > the background, while things at the bottom belong to
> the foreground.
> >
> > So, placing a logo at the bottom would be more
> effective, from this
> point
> > of
> > view. When creating 3D demo applications, I used to
> place the logo
> bottom
> > left, obscuring the scenery there.
> >
> > -- Claude
> >
> > On 8/8/07, Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi everyone. First post here (excluding the job
> post a few days
> back).
> > > What I wanted to ask everyone here is why does the
> logo need to be
> in
> > the
> > > top left corner of a page? Is this simply a
> consequence of
> convention?
> > > Have there been studies indicating that users get
> frustrated when
> the
> > > logo's
> > > placed on the right side? Or is there a more
> fundamental issue of
> > > usability?
> > >
> > > I'm covering my bases in regards to:
> > >
> > > - The logo being a home button by including home
> in the global nav.
> > > - Making sure the design reflects the brand
> identity with enough
> > strength
> > > that in the event the logo's hidden (i.e. small
> screen) the brand
> > doesn't
> > > suffer.
> > > - Leveraging the unconventional method of
> right-side placement to
> its
> > > fullest (there's a lot you can do actually).
> > >
> > > What are some of your thoughts regarding this
> issue?
> > >
> > > Keiyu Kamatani
> > > HeathWallace (HK) Ltd
>
>
> Thanks and Regards
> Manish Govind Pillewar
> Sr. User Interface Designer-UXD
> Bangalore-India
>
> Tel. +91 9880566951 (M)
> +91 80 41113967 (Eve.)
> Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface :-)
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try
> it
> now.
> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> ~ we
>
> -------------------------------------
> n: will evans
> t: user experience architect
> e: wkevans4 at gmail.com
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

8 Aug 2007 - 10:40am
Katie Albers
2005

Could they find it? yes, probably. Will they want to
look for it? Probably not. It isn't as though this is
only as old as the Web...It goes far far back.

Another thing...decrease window size (not minimize it
so that you have a labelled icon...just make the
window as small as you can). Notice that the thing
that stays in place is the upper left hand corner.

The reasons for putting the icon there get stronger
with the advent of the Web, not weaker.

Katie

--- Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for all the replies. I have to admit I do
> agree with most points
> raised here, but I can't help but feel that we're
> basing a lot of this on
> conventions and assumptions. I readily agree that
> people expect to see the
> logo in the top left, but unlike more established
> conventions I'm not sold
> on the doomsday consequence scenario. Increasingly
> well-educated (and
> savvy) surfers means they are more capable and
> quick-learning. On the
> flip-side, this would suggest less tolerance for
> poorly implemented ideas,
> which leads me to my final point: if I designed a
> site with the logo on the
> right, and backed my decision with proper research
> and usability principles
> am I really making the wrong choice? Wouldn't users
> quickly learn and find
> that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the logo
> on the right, and
> perhaps help differentiate my clients brand in a
> positive manner? At this
> point I'm leaning towards yes...
>
> Keiyu
>
> On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > FYI-I should have been specific about the Z
> pattern when reading-that is
> > from the hard copy (such as magazine ads), not web
> sites.
> >
> >
> >
> > Susie
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: W Evans [mailto:wkevans4 at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:17 AM
> > To: Susie Robson
> > Cc: Manish Pillewar; discuss at ixda.org
> > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on
> placing the logo in the
> > topleft corner?
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is some research:
> >
> >
>
http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html
> >
> > Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a
> Website
> >
> > By Sav Shrestha <mailto:sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu>
> & Kelsi Lenz <mailto:
> > kmlenz at wichita.edu>
> >
> > Summary: This article discusses
> users' visual scan paths
> > of web pages containing text and/or pictures while
> conducting browsing and
> > searching tasks. User performance on three
> usability tasks on an e-commerce
> > website is described. Results show that users
> follow a fairly uniform scan
> > path when browsing through pictures, and a more
> random path while
> > specifically searching through them. Additionally,
> users appeared to follow
> > Nielsen's 'F' pattern (2006) while both browsing
> and searching through
> > text-based pages.
> >
> > Introduction
> >
> > According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on
> the left side of the
> > body of a webpage when reading and fixate very
> little on information located
> > on the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F'
> viewing pattern with a few
> > horizontal scans, the first one being longer than
> the second and a long
> > vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are
> that users may miss
> > valuable information located on the right-hand
> side of the page.
> >
> > <
> >
>
http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/images/eyetracking_corporate_site_about_us.png
> > >
> > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html
> >
> > Figure 1. The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen
> (2006).
> > (The red areas indicate the highest number of
> fixations, followed by
> > yellow and blue.)
> >
> > This study investigated whether the "F" pattern
> style of viewing was
> > dependent on the page content (text-based vs.
> picture-based) and/or on the
> > user task (searching vs. browsing). This
> information could play a valuable
> > role in determining where companies should place
> certain types of
> > information on web pages.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/8/07, Susie Robson
> <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com > wrote:
> >
> > I don't have specific articles to cite but I have
> taken many design
> > classes throughout the years, and have been taught
> that the top left is one
> > of the best places for logo placement. This goes
> back to print copy as
> > well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is
> the logo/title? Always top
> > left. Western culture reads from left to right so
> we are used to starting at
> > the top left with just about anything and then
> tend to read in a Z pattern
> > (top left then across to right, then down to
> bottom left and across to the
> > right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes
> the bottom right is a good
> > place for a logo). Most design is because of print
> design and many studies
> > were done throughout the years and standards were
> developed because of
> > these. There are other places to put logos but it
> depends on the layout of
> > the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid
> you use.
> >
> > I know everyone wants to be innovative but there
> are good reasons to have
> > standards and it's better to use that creativity
> and innovation in other
> > ways.
> >
> > Susie
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> [mailto:
> > discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com ]
> On Behalf Of Manish
> > Pillewar
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
> > To: discuss at ixda.org
> > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on
> placing the logo in the
> > topleft corner?
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've been having these doubts since a long time.
> Glad
> > this came up.
> >
> > I remember attending a UI Workshop during my
> college
> > days. We were asked to create menu structure and
> the
> > interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu
> at
> > the left, i instinctively placed it on the right.
> I
> > find this convenient and tend to think the users
> would
> > be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster
> than
> > whats on the left. I was surprised then to know
> that
> > research says we all look to the left instead.
> >
> > Has it been scientifically proved that its the way
> the
> > brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with
> our
> > experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
> > windows-left start menu,etc)?
> >
> > I'm trying to cite examples from the real world
> where
>
=== message truncated ===

____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7

8 Aug 2007 - 10:47am
Keiyu Kamatani
2007

Katie - Definitely some valid points. Screen size is certainly one issue we
dealt with and tried to find sensible solutions to that problem, one of
which was to provide a contextual link back to home in the nav. That said,
it doesn't solve the issue of a hidden logo (and thus the brand) but we've
tried hard to balance by making sure the look and feel in its entirety
promotes the brand appropriately.

On 8/8/07, Katie Albers <katie_albers at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Could they find it? yes, probably. Will they want to
> look for it? Probably not. It isn't as though this is
> only as old as the Web...It goes far far back.
>
> Another thing...decrease window size (not minimize it
> so that you have a labelled icon...just make the
> window as small as you can). Notice that the thing
> that stays in place is the upper left hand corner.
>
> The reasons for putting the icon there get stronger
> with the advent of the Web, not weaker.
>
> Katie
>
> --- Keiyu Kamatani <banzai78.ixda at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for all the replies. I have to admit I do
> > agree with most points
> > raised here, but I can't help but feel that we're
> > basing a lot of this on
> > conventions and assumptions. I readily agree that
> > people expect to see the
> > logo in the top left, but unlike more established
> > conventions I'm not sold
> > on the doomsday consequence scenario. Increasingly
> > well-educated (and
> > savvy) surfers means they are more capable and
> > quick-learning. On the
> > flip-side, this would suggest less tolerance for
> > poorly implemented ideas,
> > which leads me to my final point: if I designed a
> > site with the logo on the
> > right, and backed my decision with proper research
> > and usability principles
> > am I really making the wrong choice? Wouldn't users
> > quickly learn and find
> > that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the logo
> > on the right, and
> > perhaps help differentiate my clients brand in a
> > positive manner? At this
> > point I'm leaning towards yes...
> >
> > Keiyu
> >
> > On 8/8/07, Susie Robson <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > FYI-I should have been specific about the Z
> > pattern when reading-that is
> > > from the hard copy (such as magazine ads), not web
> > sites.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Susie
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: W Evans [mailto:wkevans4 at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:17 AM
> > > To: Susie Robson
> > > Cc: Manish Pillewar; discuss at ixda.org
> > > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on
> > placing the logo in the
> > > topleft corner?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is some research:
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/eyegaze.html
> > >
> > > Eye Gaze Patterns while Searching vs. Browsing a
> > Website
> > >
> > > By Sav Shrestha <mailto:sxshrestha3 at wichita.edu>
> > & Kelsi Lenz <mailto:
> > > kmlenz at wichita.edu>
> > >
> > > Summary: This article discusses
> > users' visual scan paths
> > > of web pages containing text and/or pictures while
> > conducting browsing and
> > > searching tasks. User performance on three
> > usability tasks on an e-commerce
> > > website is described. Results show that users
> > follow a fairly uniform scan
> > > path when browsing through pictures, and a more
> > random path while
> > > specifically searching through them. Additionally,
> > users appeared to follow
> > > Nielsen's 'F' pattern (2006) while both browsing
> > and searching through
> > > text-based pages.
> > >
> > > Introduction
> > >
> > > According to Nielsen (2006) users tend to focus on
> > the left side of the
> > > body of a webpage when reading and fixate very
> > little on information located
> > > on the right-hand side. Users maintain this 'F'
> > viewing pattern with a few
> > > horizontal scans, the first one being longer than
> > the second and a long
> > > vertical scan (Figure 1). Implications of this are
> > that users may miss
> > > valuable information located on the right-hand
> > side of the page.
> > >
> > > <
> > >
> >
>
> http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/images/eyetracking_corporate_site_about_us.png
> > > >
> > > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html
> > >
> > > Figure 1. The "F" pattern as noted by Nielsen
> > (2006).
> > > (The red areas indicate the highest number of
> > fixations, followed by
> > > yellow and blue.)
> > >
> > > This study investigated whether the "F" pattern
> > style of viewing was
> > > dependent on the page content (text-based vs.
> > picture-based) and/or on the
> > > user task (searching vs. browsing). This
> > information could play a valuable
> > > role in determining where companies should place
> > certain types of
> > > information on web pages.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8/8/07, Susie Robson
> > <Susie.Robson at mathworks.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't have specific articles to cite but I have
> > taken many design
> > > classes throughout the years, and have been taught
> > that the top left is one
> > > of the best places for logo placement. This goes
> > back to print copy as
> > > well--take a look at any magazine cover--where is
> > the logo/title? Always top
> > > left. Western culture reads from left to right so
> > we are used to starting at
> > > the top left with just about anything and then
> > tend to read in a Z pattern
> > > (top left then across to right, then down to
> > bottom left and across to the
> > > right again--if fact, in print anyway, sometimes
> > the bottom right is a good
> > > place for a logo). Most design is because of print
> > design and many studies
> > > were done throughout the years and standards were
> > developed because of
> > > these. There are other places to put logos but it
> > depends on the layout of
> > > the rest of the page (hardcopy again) and the grid
> > you use.
> > >
> > > I know everyone wants to be innovative but there
> > are good reasons to have
> > > standards and it's better to use that creativity
> > and innovation in other
> > > ways.
> > >
> > > Susie
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
> > discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> > [mailto:
> > > discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com ]
> > On Behalf Of Manish
> > > Pillewar
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:00 AM
> > > To: discuss at ixda.org
> > > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why do we insist on
> > placing the logo in the
> > > topleft corner?
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I've been having these doubts since a long time.
> > Glad
> > > this came up.
> > >
> > > I remember attending a UI Workshop during my
> > college
> > > days. We were asked to create menu structure and
> > the
> > > interface thereon. While everyone placed the menu
> > at
> > > the left, i instinctively placed it on the right.
> > I
> > > find this convenient and tend to think the users
> > would
> > > be naturally drawn to whats on their right faster
> > than
> > > whats on the left. I was surprised then to know
> > that
> > > research says we all look to the left instead.
> > >
> > > Has it been scientifically proved that its the way
> > the
> > > brain works(naturally) and has nothing to do with
> > our
> > > experience with computers(dos-left command prompt,
> > > windows-left start menu,etc)?
> > >
> > > I'm trying to cite examples from the real world
> > where
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>

8 Aug 2007 - 1:18pm
Will Parker
2007

On Aug 8, 2007, at 8:40 AM, Katie Albers wrote:

> Another thing...decrease window size (not minimize it
> so that you have a labelled icon...just make the
> window as small as you can). Notice that the thing
> that stays in place is the upper left hand corner.

The CSS coding to lock page elements to an arbitrary edge of the
viewport is trivial. If I want a logo locked to a position 100 px
northwest of the bottom left corner, it's less than ten short lines
of CSS, including provision for braindead-IE mode. Having said that,
the trickier problem that arises from that solution is developing a
layout that accommodates viewport-relative element positioning.

My take on logo placement is that any logo in any location is going
to fade into the background for frequent visitors, and should
therefore not intrude on the useful content. However, the page design
has to include the logo as a keystone element.

Placing the logo somewhere other than top left is going to require
some tough visual and architectural design decisions to overcome
Katie's objection.

So -- do you have a design in mind that is worth the work? If it's
usable, attractive and highly distinctive, it might well be.

- Will

Will Parker
wparker at ChannelingDesign.com

“I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If
that were the case, then Microsoft would have great products.” -
Steve Jobs

9 Aug 2007 - 3:54am
Adrian Howard
2005

On 8 Aug 2007, at 19:18, Will Parker wrote:
[snip]
> Having said that,
> the trickier problem that arises from that solution is developing a
> layout that accommodates viewport-relative element positioning.
[snip]

Not to mention that location moving left-right on some browsers
depending on whether page scrolls (and hence has a scroll bar).

Adrian

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