Top Ten Design Gurus

19 Jul 2007 - 12:04pm
7 years ago
61 replies
1544 reads
Jack L. Moffett
2005

E-consultancy has published a list of the "world's top 10 user
experience gurus". They surveyed over 700 people "with an interest in
usability and user experience".

The list:
1) Jakob Nielsen
2) Steve Krug
3) Jared Spool
4) Donald Norman
5) Jeffrey Veen
6) Jesse James Garrett
7) Louis Rosenfeld
8) Jenifer Tidwell
9) Seth Godin
10) Eisenberg brothers

The full article: http://tinyurl.com/ynjosr

Jack L. Moffett
Interaction Designer
inmedius
412.459.0310 x219
http://www.inmedius.com

When I am working on a problem,
I never think about beauty.
I think only of how to solve the problem.

But when I have finished,
if the solution is not beautiful,
I know it is wrong.

- R. Buckminster Fuller

Comments

19 Jul 2007 - 12:17pm
Jonathan Korman
2004

Hmmnn. Not that these aren't respectable people, but I'm troubled by the
proportions. I count four or five very sharp marketing people, three
interesting design commentators, two excellent information architects,
one good all-around web designer, and one proper interaction designer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Moffett

E-consultancy has published a list of the "world's top 10 user
experience gurus". They surveyed over 700 people "with an interest in
usability and user experience".

The list:
1) Jakob Nielsen
2) Steve Krug
3) Jared Spool
4) Donald Norman
5) Jeffrey Veen
6) Jesse James Garrett
7) Louis Rosenfeld
8) Jenifer Tidwell
9) Seth Godin
10) Eisenberg brothers

The full article: http://tinyurl.com/ynjosr

19 Jul 2007 - 12:31pm
jrrogan
2005

Top 10 Design GURU's?

Besides the Adaptive Path guys, what are the "Killer Apps/Killer Products"
that can be credited to any of these people?

On 7/19/07, Jonathan Korman <jonathan at cooper.com> wrote:
>
> Hmmnn. Not that these aren't respectable people, but I'm troubled by the
> proportions. I count four or five very sharp marketing people, three
> interesting design commentators, two excellent information architects,
> one good all-around web designer, and one proper interaction designer.
>
>

19 Jul 2007 - 12:31pm
Kevin Silver1
2006

David Armano has an interesting discussion about this on his blog,
including a poll for you to vote for up and coming gurus, as well as
the current top gurus:

http://darmano.typepad.com/logic_emotion/2007/07/top-names-in-us.html

kevin

On Jul 19, 2007, at 11:17 AM, Jonathan Korman wrote:

> Hmmnn. Not that these aren't respectable people, but I'm troubled
> by the
> proportions. I count four or five very sharp marketing people, three
> interesting design commentators, two excellent information architects,
> one good all-around web designer, and one proper interaction designer.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Moffett
>
> E-consultancy has published a list of the "world's top 10 user
> experience gurus". They surveyed over 700 people "with an interest in
> usability and user experience".
>
> The list:
> 1) Jakob Nielsen
> 2) Steve Krug
> 3) Jared Spool
> 4) Donald Norman
> 5) Jeffrey Veen
> 6) Jesse James Garrett
> 7) Louis Rosenfeld
> 8) Jenifer Tidwell
> 9) Seth Godin
> 10) Eisenberg brothers
>
> The full article: http://tinyurl.com/ynjosr
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

Kevin Silver
Clearwired Web Services

10899 Montgomery, Suite C
Albuquerque, NM 87109

office: 505.217.3505
toll-free: 866.430.2832
fax: 505.217.3506

e: kevin at clearwired.com
w: www.clearwired.com

19 Jul 2007 - 12:35pm
White, Jeff
2007

Hello?! Useit.com! :-)

>>
Top 10 Design GURU's?

Besides the Adaptive Path guys, what are the "Killer Apps/Killer
Products"
that can be credited to any of these people?
>>

19 Jul 2007 - 12:39pm
Alder Yarrow
2004

Good question.

It's always struck me as odd and ironic in many fields that often the
"gurus" are folks who spend and have always spent more time talking than
doing.

Don't get me wrong, some of these people have very interesting and insigtful
things to say, but at the end of the day I prefer to listen to Lance
Armstrong talk about winning a bicycle race than some Sports Physiologist
trying to tell me the same thing.

Knowledge, in my humble opinion, is only demonstrated by doing. Not by
talking.

Alder
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Alder Yarrow, Founder & Principal
HYDRANT
M:415.730.3209
www.hydrantsf.com

-----Original Message-----

Besides the Adaptive Path guys, what are the "Killer Apps/Killer Products"
that can be credited to any of these people?

19 Jul 2007 - 12:42pm
Carol J. Smith
2007

Only one woman made the list - there's our design problem ladies. We need
to get to work!

Carol Smith

On 7/19/07, Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com> wrote:
>
> E-consultancy has published a list of the "world's top 10 user
> experience gurus". They surveyed over 700 people "with an interest in
> usability and user experience".
>
> The list:
> 1) Jakob Nielsen
> 2) Steve Krug
> 3) Jared Spool
> 4) Donald Norman
> 5) Jeffrey Veen
> 6) Jesse James Garrett
> 7) Louis Rosenfeld
> 8) Jenifer Tidwell
> 9) Seth Godin
> 10) Eisenberg brothers
>

19 Jul 2007 - 12:41pm
Jack L. Moffett
2005

On Jul 19, 2007, at 1:31 PM, Rich Rogan wrote:

> Top 10 Design GURU's?

Well, I guess my subject was a little misleading. They say "user
experience" gurus. There is a difference (which is a completely
different discussion that I hope I'm not opening again now. ;)

Jack

Jack L. Moffett
Interaction Designer
inmedius
412.459.0310 x219
http://www.inmedius.com

The public is more familiar with
bad design than good design.
It is, in effect, conditioned
to prefer bad design, because
that is what it lives with.
The new becomes threatening,
the old reassuring.

- Paul Rand

19 Jul 2007 - 12:56pm
jrrogan
2005

Not to open a different Discussion, but...

"User Experience GURU", what makes a user experience GURU more a "GURU" then
something tangible - the end result, which can be measured and defined as
being of high quality, not just talking about how you get to quality.

Don't get me wrong, I think all of these individuals have aided the UX/UI/IA
etc, disciplines immensely, but the absence of designers in this list is
like having Nobel Prize winners comprised of people talking about what
others have done, (give em 1 or 2 places in 10 for the analysis prize ;)

19 Jul 2007 - 12:56pm
Tanya Rabourn
2004

On 7/19/07, Alder Yarrow <alder at alderyarrow.com> wrote:

> It's always struck me as odd and ironic in many fields that often the
> "gurus" are folks who spend and have always spent more time talking than
> doing.

Sometimes the people who are good at doing, aren't the best in
explaining how they do it. Guru implies teacher, so being able to
communicate to all types is key. How many *non* UX folks have we been
able to enlighten just by handing them Steve Krug's very palatable
book?

On 7/19/07, Carol Smith <carologic at gmail.com> wrote:
> Only one woman made the list - there's our design problem ladies. We need
> to get to work!

Yeah, I immediately looked too.

-Tanya

19 Jul 2007 - 12:26pm
SemanticWill
2007

Wow!

That list is so horrible and ill-informed it almost makes me cringe. Or cry.
Is it me - or is the UX/ID community filling up with sycophants that don't
read the the most important books in our field?

Morville - co-author of the IA bible, as well as Ambient Findability is not
in the top 10.
Neither is Alan Cooper - author of Inmates and About Face (up to version 3)
Neither is the godfather of interaction design - Ben Schneiderman

Jenifer Tidwell's book is great - but really she is new and only published
the ID O'Reilly book and one article on Interaction Design patterns on her
MIT website. I think to get elevated to Guru status - you need a little more
than that.

Seth Godin???? He wouldn't know guided navigation or Marcia Bates articles
on berry-picking if it bit him in the booty. He's a marketing "guru" -
permission marketing does not make him a guru of user experience design, or
interaction design, or information architecture. What were these people
smoking?

"So that's the list! Are you missing from our hall of fame? Assuming you
have the expertise and knowledge, perhaps you are not marketing yourself
well enough (or don't want to)."

I would argue that it's the intellectual paucity of the responders and their
expertise in UX.

--
will evans
information architect
wkevans4 at gmail.com

On 7/19/07, Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com> wrote:
>
> E-consultancy has published a list of the "world's top 10 user
> experience gurus". They surveyed over 700 people "with an interest in
> usability and user experience".
>
> The list:
> 1) Jakob Nielsen
> 2) Steve Krug
> 3) Jared Spool
> 4) Donald Norman
> 5) Jeffrey Veen
> 6) Jesse James Garrett
> 7) Louis Rosenfeld
> 8) Jenifer Tidwell
> 9) Seth Godin
> 10) Eisenberg brothers
>
> The full article: http://tinyurl.com/ynjosr
>
>
>
> Jack L. Moffett
> Interaction Designer
> inmedius
> 412.459.0310 x219
> http://www.inmedius.com
>
>
> When I am working on a problem,
> I never think about beauty.
> I think only of how to solve the problem.
>
> But when I have finished,
> if the solution is not beautiful,
> I know it is wrong.
>
> - R. Buckminster Fuller
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

19 Jul 2007 - 12:36pm
SemanticWill
2007

Jacob Nielson is responsible for useit.com - probably one of the LEAST usable
websites on usability on the net!

Killer App? Yeah - I want to kill myself every time I try to figure out the
taxonomy of useit.com

On 7/19/07, Rich Rogan <jrrogan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Top 10 Design GURU's?
>
> Besides the Adaptive Path guys, what are the "Killer Apps/Killer Products"
> that can be credited to any of these people?
>
>
> On 7/19/07, Jonathan Korman <jonathan at cooper.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hmmnn. Not that these aren't respectable people, but I'm troubled by the
> > proportions. I count four or five very sharp marketing people, three
> > interesting design commentators, two excellent information architects,
> > one good all-around web designer, and one proper interaction designer.
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

19 Jul 2007 - 12:52pm
SemanticWill
2007

Mary Beth Rosson, co-author of Usability Engineering is great - and didn't
make the list.

When the list is filled with marketers and self-promoters, there is very
little room left for real practitioners!

On 7/19/07, Carol Smith <carologic at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Only one woman made the list - there's our design problem ladies. We need
> to get to work!
>
> Carol Smith
>
> On 7/19/07, Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com> wrote:
> >
> > E-consultancy has published a list of the "world's top 10 user
> > experience gurus". They surveyed over 700 people "with an interest in
> > usability and user experience".
> >
> > The list:
> > 1) Jakob Nielsen
> > 2) Steve Krug
> > 3) Jared Spool
> > 4) Donald Norman
> > 5) Jeffrey Veen
> > 6) Jesse James Garrett
> > 7) Louis Rosenfeld
> > 8) Jenifer Tidwell
> > 9) Seth Godin
> > 10) Eisenberg brothers
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

--
will evans
information architect
617.281.1281
wkevans4 at gmail.com

----------------------------------
Will Evans is a software information architect for a risk modeling software
company in Boston. Previously he was the information architect responsible
for designing the Gather.com user experience (UX). He has published articles
about Information Architecture, User Experience, and Interaction Design. He
has taught User Centered Design and Building Usable Enterprise Architectures
to both small and large corporate audiences.
----------------------------------
"Reinventing the cluetrain tagclouds of
post dynamic mashups synergistically
integrating beta-test long-tail network
effects for integrated Ajaxian
disintermediated citizen-mediated
memespaces."

19 Jul 2007 - 1:00pm
bminihan
2007

Perhaps those credited with the killer apps/killer products with which we're
familiar are equally credited for their marketing and business sense and so
aren't seen specifically as "usability gurus". Could be that business
success elevates you beyond guru status.

Another possibility is that many of the killer apps we love are properly
credited to the teams of people required to deliver them, not just the
genius behind the idea.

Bryan

- Bryan
http://www.bryanminihan.com

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Rogan
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:32 PM
To: Jonathan Korman
Cc: ixd-discussion
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Top Ten Design Gurus

Top 10 Design GURU's?

Besides the Adaptive Path guys, what are the "Killer Apps/Killer Products"
that can be credited to any of these people?

On 7/19/07, Jonathan Korman <jonathan at cooper.com> wrote:
>
> Hmmnn. Not that these aren't respectable people, but I'm troubled by the
> proportions. I count four or five very sharp marketing people, three
> interesting design commentators, two excellent information architects,
> one good all-around web designer, and one proper interaction designer.
>
>
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
Questions .................. list at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

19 Jul 2007 - 12:38pm
Ian Fenn
2007

On 19/7/07 18:31, "Rich Rogan" <jrrogan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Top 10 Design GURU's?

I think that was Jack's subject rather than the claim of the article.

> Besides the Adaptive Path guys, what are the "Killer Apps/Killer Products"
> that can be credited to any of these people?

Why would that be relevant?

All the best,

--
Ian

19 Jul 2007 - 1:05pm
Alder Yarrow
2004

Agreed. But there are plenty of people out there (and some on that list)
that may be great communicators, but have never actually done a lot of the
things that they spend their time talking about.

My gurus (a term I despise, by the way) in any field of expertise are folks
who regularly prove their knowledge by actually doing things with it in the
marketplace, AND who can talk about it in ways that are insightful.

Alder

-----Original Message-----
Sometimes the people who are good at doing, aren't the best in explaining
how they do it. Guru implies teacher, so being able to communicate to all
types is key. How many *non* UX folks have we been able to enlighten just by
handing them Steve Krug's very palatable book?

19 Jul 2007 - 1:13pm
Mark Schraad
2006

These types of lists always draw criticism and create controversy and I am not sure what other purpose they serve. What I do not know is how the list was intended... gurus to those unschooled - or gurus to those in practice?

What I do know is that when ever Spool or Garrett pen something I am very likely to read it.

Mark

On Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 01:19PM, "Jonathan Korman" <jonathan at cooper.com> wrote:
>Hmmnn. Not that these aren't respectable people, but I'm troubled by the
>proportions. I count four or five very sharp marketing people, three
>interesting design commentators, two excellent information architects,
>one good all-around web designer, and one proper interaction designer.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Moffett
>
>E-consultancy has published a list of the "world's top 10 user
>experience gurus". They surveyed over 700 people "with an interest in
>usability and user experience".
>
>The list:
>1) Jakob Nielsen
>2) Steve Krug
>3) Jared Spool
>4) Donald Norman
>5) Jeffrey Veen
>6) Jesse James Garrett
>7) Louis Rosenfeld
>8) Jenifer Tidwell
>9) Seth Godin
>10) Eisenberg brothers
>
>The full article: http://tinyurl.com/ynjosr

19 Jul 2007 - 1:20pm
Ian Fenn
2007

On 19/7/07 18:26, "W Evans" <wkevans4 at gmail.com> wrote:
> That list is so horrible and ill-informed it almost makes me cringe. Or cry.
> Is it me - or is the UX/ID community filling up with sycophants that don't
> read the the most important books in our field?

I don't think anyone mentioned that this list originated within the UX/ID
community...

The actual data comes from a wider report.

The methodology:

> Some 756 respondents completed an online survey over a three-week period in
> May 2007.

Long and short of it is that the respondents were self-selecting from
Econsultancy's mailing list. So, a real (and unknown) mix of mostly new
media and marketing professionals, not just UX/ID practitioners.

All the best,

--
Ian

19 Jul 2007 - 1:35pm
SemanticWill
2007

so "world's top 10 user experience gurus as chosen by a self-selecting
group of e-marketing professionals that don't know much about UX"

would be a better title for the article.

On 7/19/07, Ian Fenn <ian at chopstixmedia.com> wrote:
>
> On 19/7/07 18:26, "W Evans" <wkevans4 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > That list is so horrible and ill-informed it almost makes me cringe. Or
> cry.
> > Is it me - or is the UX/ID community filling up with sycophants that
> don't
> > read the the most important books in our field?
>
> I don't think anyone mentioned that this list originated within the UX/ID
> community...
>
> The actual data comes from a wider report.
>
> The methodology:
>
> > Some 756 respondents completed an online survey over a three-week period
> in
> > May 2007.
>
> Long and short of it is that the respondents were self-selecting from
> Econsultancy's mailing list. So, a real (and unknown) mix of mostly new
> media and marketing professionals, not just UX/ID practitioners.
>
> All the best,
>
> --
> Ian
>
>
>

--
will evans
information architect
617.281.1281
wkevans4 at gmail.com

----------------------------------
Will Evans is a software information architect for a risk modeling software
company in Boston. Previously he was the information architect responsible
for designing the Gather.com user experience (UX). He has published articles
about Information Architecture, User Experience, and Interaction Design. He
has taught User Centered Design and Building Usable Enterprise Architectures
to both small and large corporate audiences.
----------------------------------
"Reinventing the cluetrain tagclouds of
post dynamic mashups synergistically
integrating beta-test long-tail network
effects for integrated Ajaxian
disintermediated citizen-mediated
memespaces."

19 Jul 2007 - 1:39pm
Jonathan Korman
2004

Well, 100% of the interaction designers on the list were women ....

: From: Carol Smith
:
: Only one woman made the list - there's our design problem ladies.
: We need to get to work!

: From: Me
:
: I count four or five very sharp marketing people, three interesting
: design commentators, two excellent information architects, one
: good all-around web designer, and one proper interaction designer.

19 Jul 2007 - 1:52pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> http://darmano.typepad.com/logic_emotion/2007/07/top-names-in-us.html

I'm sort of surprised my name isn't on that page. My book is selling
as well, if not better, than most of those authors.

(Toot.) ;)

-r-

19 Jul 2007 - 1:52pm
Anthony Hempell
2007

I think the paragraph directly below the list says it all:

"Of course, this isn't meant to be an objective assessment of who is the
"best" user experience expert, but it does give an idea of how well
established these people are in the field - and how successful they have
been in getting their ideas into the consciousness of the wider internet
design and marketing communities."

i.e., it's a measure of brand recognition, and among the extended
community who are not primarily UX designers.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-
> bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of W Evans
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:35 AM
> To: Ian Fenn
> Cc: ixd-discussion
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Top Ten Design Gurus
>
> so "world's top 10 user experience gurus as chosen by a
self-selecting
> group of e-marketing professionals that don't know much about UX"
>
> would be a better title for the article.
>
>
> On 7/19/07, Ian Fenn <ian at chopstixmedia.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 19/7/07 18:26, "W Evans" <wkevans4 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > That list is so horrible and ill-informed it almost makes me
cringe.
> Or
> > cry.
> > > Is it me - or is the UX/ID community filling up with sycophants
that
> > don't
> > > read the the most important books in our field?
> >
> > I don't think anyone mentioned that this list originated within the
> UX/ID
> > community...
> >
> > The actual data comes from a wider report.
> >
> > The methodology:
> >
> > > Some 756 respondents completed an online survey over a three-week
> period
> > in
> > > May 2007.
> >
> > Long and short of it is that the respondents were self-selecting
from
> > Econsultancy's mailing list. So, a real (and unknown) mix of mostly
new
> > media and marketing professionals, not just UX/ID practitioners.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > --
> > Ian
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> will evans
> information architect
> 617.281.1281
> wkevans4 at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------
> Will Evans is a software information architect for a risk modeling
> software
> company in Boston. Previously he was the information architect
responsible
> for designing the Gather.com user experience (UX). He has published
> articles
> about Information Architecture, User Experience, and Interaction
Design.
> He
> has taught User Centered Design and Building Usable Enterprise
> Architectures
> to both small and large corporate audiences.
> ----------------------------------
> "Reinventing the cluetrain tagclouds of
> post dynamic mashups synergistically
> integrating beta-test long-tail network
> effects for integrated Ajaxian
> disintermediated citizen-mediated
> memespaces."
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

19 Jul 2007 - 1:55pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> Top 10 Design GURU's?
>
> Besides the Adaptive Path guys, what are the "Killer Apps/Killer Products"
> that can be credited to any of these people?

It's a "user experience" list, not a designer list. I think each of
those people qualifies nicely under that blanket term.

-r-

19 Jul 2007 - 1:56pm
Todd Warfel
2003

Yeah, that was my initial reaction - Designers vs. UX Gurus...
overlap? Yes, but brought me to thinking more along the lines of John
Maeda and Johnathan Ives than the Norman, Spool, Krug crowd.

On Jul 19, 2007, at 1:41 PM, Jack Moffett wrote:

> Well, I guess my subject was a little misleading. They say "user
> experience" gurus. There is a difference (which is a completely
> different discussion that I hope I'm not opening again now. ;)

Cheers!

Todd Zaki Warfel
President, Design Researcher
Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
----------------------------------
Contact Info
Voice: (215) 825-7423
Email: todd at messagefirst.com
AIM: twarfel at mac.com
Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
----------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.

19 Jul 2007 - 1:59pm
Mark Schraad
2006

Nice catch - I did not even bother to read the article.

On Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 02:52PM, "Anthony Hempell" <anthony.hempell at blastradius.com> wrote:
>
>I think the paragraph directly below the list says it all:
>
>"Of course, this isn't meant to be an objective assessment of who is the
>"best" user experience expert, but it does give an idea of how well
>established these people are in the field - and how successful they have
>been in getting their ideas into the consciousness of the wider internet
>design and marketing communities."
>
>i.e., it's a measure of brand recognition, and among the extended
>community who are not primarily UX designers.
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-
>> bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of W Evans
>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:35 AM
>> To: Ian Fenn
>> Cc: ixd-discussion
>> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Top Ten Design Gurus
>>
>> so "world's top 10 user experience gurus as chosen by a
>self-selecting
>> group of e-marketing professionals that don't know much about UX"
>>
>> would be a better title for the article.
>>
>>
>> On 7/19/07, Ian Fenn <ian at chopstixmedia.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > On 19/7/07 18:26, "W Evans" <wkevans4 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > That list is so horrible and ill-informed it almost makes me
>cringe.
>> Or
>> > cry.
>> > > Is it me - or is the UX/ID community filling up with sycophants
>that
>> > don't
>> > > read the the most important books in our field?
>> >
>> > I don't think anyone mentioned that this list originated within the
>> UX/ID
>> > community...
>> >
>> > The actual data comes from a wider report.
>> >
>> > The methodology:
>> >
>> > > Some 756 respondents completed an online survey over a three-week
>> period
>> > in
>> > > May 2007.
>> >
>> > Long and short of it is that the respondents were self-selecting
>from
>> > Econsultancy's mailing list. So, a real (and unknown) mix of mostly
>new
>> > media and marketing professionals, not just UX/ID practitioners.
>> >
>> > All the best,
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ian
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> will evans
>> information architect
>> 617.281.1281
>> wkevans4 at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> Will Evans is a software information architect for a risk modeling
>> software
>> company in Boston. Previously he was the information architect
>responsible
>> for designing the Gather.com user experience (UX). He has published
>> articles
>> about Information Architecture, User Experience, and Interaction
>Design.
>> He
>> has taught User Centered Design and Building Usable Enterprise
>> Architectures
>> to both small and large corporate audiences.
>> ----------------------------------
>> "Reinventing the cluetrain tagclouds of
>> post dynamic mashups synergistically
>> integrating beta-test long-tail network
>> effects for integrated Ajaxian
>> disintermediated citizen-mediated
>> memespaces."
>> ________________________________________________________________
>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
>> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
>> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
>> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>________________________________________________________________
>Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
>List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
>Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>Questions .................. list at ixda.org
>Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>
>

19 Jul 2007 - 2:00pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> Seth Godin????

Wow - I hadn't noticed that. Seth shold not be anywhere near that list.

-r-

19 Jul 2007 - 2:00pm
Todd Warfel
2003

Which book would that be? If you're going to plug it, mention the
name :).

On Jul 19, 2007, at 2:52 PM, Robert Hoekman, Jr. wrote:

>> http://darmano.typepad.com/logic_emotion/2007/07/top-names-in-us.html
>
> I'm sort of surprised my name isn't on that page. My book is selling
> as well, if not better, than most of those authors.
>
> (Toot.) ;)
>
> -r-

Cheers!

Todd Zaki Warfel
President, Design Researcher
Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
----------------------------------
Contact Info
Voice: (215) 825-7423
Email: todd at messagefirst.com
AIM: twarfel at mac.com
Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
----------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.

19 Jul 2007 - 2:02pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> Jacob Nielson is responsible for useit.com - probably one of the LEAST usable
> websites on usability on the net!

Don't mistake usability for desirability. It's pretty dern usable -
technically - it's just hideous, which makes it undesirable. It's
actually exactly what I'd expect from Jakob. He tends to discount
"design" in favor of pure usability.

-r-

19 Jul 2007 - 2:03pm
jrrogan
2005

What makes a "User Experience GURU", more a "GURU" then doing something
tangible - the end result, which can be measured and defined as being of
high quality, not just talking about how you get to quality.

Anaylsis is great and all, but if this is the most important aspect of user
experience, how does this actually aide the User? Do the products design
themselves given GURU's guidance?

Possibly the concept "User Experience" doesn't involve the end user at all,
and is a more abstract concept, which we need the GURU's for.

On 7/19/07, Robert Hoekman, Jr. <robert at rhjr.net> wrote:
>
> > Top 10 Design GURU's?
> >
> > Besides the Adaptive Path guys, what are the "Killer Apps/Killer
> Products"
> > that can be credited to any of these people?
>
> It's a "user experience" list, not a designer list. I think each of
> those people qualifies nicely under that blanket term.
>
> -r-
>

19 Jul 2007 - 2:08pm
Michael Micheletti
2006

I'll make my own list of personal gurus, of people who've written books that
I've spent my own money on and refer to with some frequency. I'm sort of
stretching the user experience category...

Jenifer Tidwell (Designing Interfaces)
Dan Safer (Designing for Interaction)
Jeffery Zeldman (Designing with Web Standards)
Steve Krug (Don't Make Me Think)
Pippo Lionni (Facts of Life)
Bill Moggridge (Designing Interactions)
Alan Cooper (Inmates, About Face)
Carolyn Snyder (Paper Prototyping)
Ellen Lupton (Thinking with Type)
Johannes Itten (The Elements of Color)

And Robert, you and your book (Designing the Obvious) are absolutely on the
ladder to my list.

Michael

On 7/19/07, Robert Hoekman, Jr. <robert at rhjr.net> wrote:
>
> It's a "user experience" list, not a designer list. I think each of
> those people qualifies nicely under that blanket term.
>
> -r-
>

19 Jul 2007 - 2:09pm
Mark Schraad
2006

A top ten user experience guru would imply that they are perceived (by this specific audience) as one of the top ten sources for advice regarding user experience.

On Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 03:04PM, "Rich Rogan" <jrrogan at gmail.com> wrote:
>What makes a "User Experience GURU", more a "GURU" then doing something
>tangible - the end result, which can be measured and defined as being of
>high quality, not just talking about how you get to quality.
>
>Anaylsis is great and all, but if this is the most important aspect of user
>experience, how does this actually aide the User? Do the products design
>themselves given GURU's guidance?
>
>Possibly the concept "User Experience" doesn't involve the end user at all,
>and is a more abstract concept, which we need the GURU's for.
>
>
>

19 Jul 2007 - 2:10pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> And Robert, you and your book (Designing the Obvious) are absolutely on the
> ladder to my list.

Aw, shux. ;) Thanks, Michael.

-r-

19 Jul 2007 - 2:16pm
Todd Warfel
2003

On Jul 19, 2007, at 3:08 PM, Michael Micheletti wrote:

> And Robert, you and your book (Designing the Obvious) are
> absolutely on the ladder to my list.

OMG, Robert, that's your book? LOL, I love that book. Really, love
that book. One of the favorites on my shelf - and tough competition
of about 400. Guess I should pay more attention to the authors name
when I'm reading these things :).

Cheers!

Todd Zaki Warfel
President, Design Researcher
Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
----------------------------------
Contact Info
Voice: (215) 825-7423
Email: todd at messagefirst.com
AIM: twarfel at mac.com
Blog: http://toddwarfel.com
----------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.

19 Jul 2007 - 2:19pm
biankamcgovern@...
2007

Usability and beauty or elegance are connected. We don't like to work
with hideous applications/sites. Beautifully designed interfaces give
pleasure to the senses and therefore might be easier to use.

On 7/19/07, Robert Hoekman, Jr. <robert at rhjr.net> wrote:
> > Jacob Nielson is responsible for useit.com - probably one of the LEAST usable
> > websites on usability on the net!
>
> Don't mistake usability for desirability. It's pretty dern usable -
> technically - it's just hideous, which makes it undesirable. It's
> actually exactly what I'd expect from Jakob. He tends to discount
> "design" in favor of pure usability.
>
> -r-
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

19 Jul 2007 - 2:40pm
Christopher Fahey
2005

Robert Hoekman wrote:
> > Seth Godin????
> Wow - I hadn't noticed that. Seth shold not be anywhere near
> that list.

I was surprised, too... but pleasantly so.

Robert, in your very next post you point out the importance of
"desirability". Seth Godin has long championed the need to focus on the
desirability of user experiences (re: seductive features and products),
especially as it affects user behavior in the world of sellable internet
products and services. He exemplifies the oft-unappreciated but
*critical* link between UX and marketing.

IMHO it's great to see marketing represented as a key part of the UX
spectrum.

-Cf

Christopher Fahey
____________________________
Behavior
http://www.behaviordesign.com
me: http://www.graphpaper.com

19 Jul 2007 - 2:46pm
Mark Schraad
2006

"Seth Godin has long championed the need to focus on the
>desirability of user experiences (re: seductive features and products),
>especially as it affects user behavior in the world of sellable internet
>products and services. He exemplifies the oft-unappreciated but
>*critical* link between UX and marketing."

That would make him an advocate or an evangelist - he is hardly a guru.

Mark

19 Jul 2007 - 2:46pm
Ryan Nichols
2005

I wouldn't pigeonhole it as just desirability. Text is an interface.
Good typography is like interface design for textual content. Poor
typography is less usable because it's difficult to read. Useit.com
has terrible typography and is hard to read. We can also go into
visual separation and hierarchy. Visual design aspects, yes, but
directly correlate to usability.

I just don't get a guru like Nielson that thinks something that is
hard to read, difficult to parse and disseminate information, yet is
somehow usable. It's a very narrow definition of the word.

Ryan

On Jul 19, 2007, at 12:02 PM, Robert Hoekman, Jr. wrote:

>> Jacob Nielson is responsible for useit.com - probably one of the
>> LEAST usable
>> websites on usability on the net!
>
> Don't mistake usability for desirability. It's pretty dern usable -
> technically - it's just hideous, which makes it undesirable. It's
> actually exactly what I'd expect from Jakob. He tends to discount
> "design" in favor of pure usability.
>
> -r-
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

19 Jul 2007 - 2:49pm
Anthony Armendariz
2006

I can accredit Jacob Nielson for some great knowledge but mostly for
the pain in my neck. :)

On Jul 19, 2007, at 1:31 PM, Rich Rogan wrote:

> Besides the Adaptive Path guys, what are the "Killer Apps/Killer
> Products"
> that can be credited to any of these people?

19 Jul 2007 - 3:05pm
Christopher Fahey
2005

Mark Schraad wrote:
> >"Seth Godin has long championed the need to focus on the
> >desirability of user experiences
>
> That would make him an advocate or an evangelist - he is
> hardly a guru.

First of all, Godin almost always gets very specific about strategies
and tactics -- not just blowing smoke with platitudes about how
desirability is important. His advice is usually actionable and
original.

Second of all, how are many people who you/we might call a "guru" are
anything more than "evangelists"? What's the difference between a "guru"
and an "evangelizer"? For example, Jessie James Garrett deserves all the
praise he can get for evangelizing and articulating the importance of
Ajax, but he didn't invent it. Hell, he isn't even well-known for
actually using Ajax for any specific design he was responsible for. A
good evangelist can be extremely helpful to their field and to the
practicioners who learn from them, and they earn the title "guru" when
we practicioners use their thinking to inform our design decisions.

And, as has been pointed out, most of these UX Gurus either (a) have
never designed a web site, or (b) even if they have designed sites
they're almost always not widely-admired sites anyway. It's a pretty
interesting phenomenon that the sites we admire the most are usually
designed by people we've never heard of (and never will hear of)...
while the people we hear about all the time have often never designed
any sites we admire, or anything at all for that matter. Go figure.

-Cf

Christopher Fahey
____________________________
Behavior
http://www.behaviordesign.com
me: http://www.graphpaper.com

19 Jul 2007 - 3:10pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> Usability and beauty or elegance are connected. We don't like to work
> with hideous applications/sites. Beautifully designed interfaces give
> pleasure to the senses and therefore might be easier to use.

I completely agree, but it's not the only factor in usability. UseIt
is well organized, clearly laid out, contains tons of useful
information that's relatively easy to find, and features fresh
homepage content on a regular basis that surfaces important events,
news, etc.

It lacks aesthetic appeal, definitely, but it's got so many other
things going for it that I'm not going to discredit it solely on that
basis.

-r-

19 Jul 2007 - 3:13pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> He [Seth Godin] exemplifies the oft-unappreciated but
> *critical* link between UX and marketing.

Great point. I am a fan of Seth - I meant no disrespect in that way -
and I agree with what you said. I'm still not toally convinced he's in
the UX world *enough* to be on that list, but I definitely can see
both sides.

-r-

19 Jul 2007 - 3:23pm
Mark Schraad
2006

I am only familiar with the Godin books. And while he is a fan of design and particularly experience design, and he recognized the importance of design - he is not a designer. So I would not be expecting any great experience design council from him other than 'its important and here is why.' I do not know him personally so I can not speak to anything other than what he has written. I will say he is an excellent business person and self promoter. He has figured out his niche and capitalized on it quite well.

Would you consider Dan Pink a guru? Dan will tell you himself he is not an expert on design - but recognized its value and recommends that businessmen pay attention to the discipline.

Evangelist and advocates promote. Sometimes they advise. Gurus can in fact lead you into the thick of the practice and process with experienced strategic and tactical advice. That is typically not the strength of an evangelist.

Mark

On Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 04:09PM, "Christopher Fahey" <chris.fahey at behaviordesign.com> wrote:
>Mark Schraad wrote:
>> >"Seth Godin has long championed the need to focus on the
>> >desirability of user experiences
>>
>> That would make him an advocate or an evangelist - he is
>> hardly a guru.
>
>First of all, Godin almost always gets very specific about strategies
>and tactics -- not just blowing smoke with platitudes about how
>desirability is important. His advice is usually actionable and
>original.
>
>Second of all, how are many people who you/we might call a "guru" are
>anything more than "evangelists"? What's the difference between a "guru"
>and an "evangelizer"? For example, Jessie James Garrett deserves all the
>praise he can get for evangelizing and articulating the importance of
>Ajax, but he didn't invent it. Hell, he isn't even well-known for
>actually using Ajax for any specific design he was responsible for. A
>good evangelist can be extremely helpful to their field and to the
>practicioners who learn from them, and they earn the title "guru" when
>we practicioners use their thinking to inform our design decisions.
>
>And, as has been pointed out, most of these UX Gurus either (a) have
>never designed a web site, or (b) even if they have designed sites
>they're almost always not widely-admired sites anyway. It's a pretty
>interesting phenomenon that the sites we admire the most are usually
>designed by people we've never heard of (and never will hear of)...
>while the people we hear about all the time have often never designed
>any sites we admire, or anything at all for that matter. Go figure.
>
>-Cf
>
>Christopher Fahey
>____________________________
>Behavior
>http://www.behaviordesign.com
>me: http://www.graphpaper.com
>________________________________________________________________
>Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
>List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
>Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>Questions .................. list at ixda.org
>Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>
>

19 Jul 2007 - 3:23pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> I just don't get a guru like Nielson that thinks something that is
> hard to read, difficult to parse and disseminate information, yet is
> somehow usable. It's a very narrow definition of the word.

I see what you're saying, but in Nielsen's defense, it's still
"usable". Improving typography, whitespace, etc may *help* usability,
or at least the enjoyability of the experience, but all that work may
only improve the actual usability of the site by a tiny bit (assuming
there's a perfect way to measure and compare the two versions).

Believe me, I think Nielsen failed completely to create a site that
people *want* to use - I'm just saying I wouldn't discredit it based
on what are essentially surface points. No matter how much we pick it
apart, it's still got plenty of good things going for it, and that's
more than I can say for most sites.

-r-

19 Jul 2007 - 3:28pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> For example, Jessie James Garrett deserves all the
> praise he can get for evangelizing and articulating the importance of
> Ajax, but he didn't invent it. Hell, he isn't even well-known for
> actually using Ajax for any specific design he was responsible for.

JJG also put together the Elements of User Experience PDF that was so
widely cirulated back in the day, and worte a really book that
expanded on the same idea (though, don't get me started on the title).
Somewhere in there, he also put together the Visual Vocabulary, which
I personally find really useful.

He doesn't just evangelize, he offers tangible things to the
community. So he may have only played an evangelist position by
coining the term Ajax, but he's definitely done some great legwork in
the past.

One could certainly argue that there plenty of people out there doing
far more, but JJG has built up a staff of evangelists that have done a
lot for raising the visibility of UX, so one could also say he's a "UX
guru by proxy".

-r-

19 Jul 2007 - 3:42pm
SemanticWill
2007

Since I took issue with Nielson and the useit.com website first - here is a
very quick list as to why it's less/un/not quite usable:

1. No global navigation
2. No clear local navigation
3. No clear taxonomy for content
4. All Alert Box content is 4th link down, header is not a link to main
alert box page
5. New items are just text with no metadata - no source, date, etc.
6. Alert Box Page - one huge list - no sorting by facets, no filtering, no
limited search
7. On Home page, Alert, Reports, News, Books, Consulting, About, should all
be links to subpages
8. About this Site - does not need to be on the home page. That's silly -
bury it under About

And that is a 5 second heuristic evaluation.

On 7/19/07, Robert Hoekman, Jr. <robert at rhjr.net> wrote:
>
> > I just don't get a guru like Nielson that thinks something that is
> > hard to read, difficult to parse and disseminate information, yet is
> > somehow usable. It's a very narrow definition of the word.
>
> I see what you're saying, but in Nielsen's defense, it's still
> "usable". Improving typography, whitespace, etc may *help* usability,
> or at least the enjoyability of the experience, but all that work may
> only improve the actual usability of the site by a tiny bit (assuming
> there's a perfect way to measure and compare the two versions).
>
> Believe me, I think Nielsen failed completely to create a site that
> people *want* to use - I'm just saying I wouldn't discredit it based
> on what are essentially surface points. No matter how much we pick it
> apart, it's still got plenty of good things going for it, and that's
> more than I can say for most sites.
>
> -r-
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

--
will evans
t: information architect
c: 617.281.1281
e: wkevans4 at gmail.com

-------------------------------------
"Findability isn't limited to content.
Nor is it limited to the Web.
Findability is about designing systems
that help people find what they need."
~ Peter Morville, The Age of Findability

19 Jul 2007 - 3:46pm
Jenifer Tidwell
2003

*boggle*

First, I'm shocked that I'm on this list at all. Shocked in a good way, but
still -- most of the design work that I've done isn't public at all. I
published a single book. Not at all sure that should qualify me for "guru"
status.

Second, I'm shocked that more people here aren't wondering why I'm on the
list. :-)

Third, I'm shocked at some of the names that aren't on the list. Alan
Cooper? Peter Morville? Luke Wroblewski? They have all done more public
design and advocacy than I have. Honestly, I'm not sure how meaningful this
list really is; I have to seriously wonder about how much the respondents
know about user experience design.

Maybe we can start another IxDA email thread in which we say who's had the
biggest influence on the way we practice our craft?

- Jenifer

On 7/19/07, Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com> wrote:
>
> E-consultancy has published a list of the "world's top 10 user
> experience gurus". They surveyed over 700 people "with an interest in
> usability and user experience".
>
> The list:
> 1) Jakob Nielsen
> 2) Steve Krug
> 3) Jared Spool
> 4) Donald Norman
> 5) Jeffrey Veen
> 6) Jesse James Garrett
> 7) Louis Rosenfeld
> 8) Jenifer Tidwell
> 9) Seth Godin
> 10) Eisenberg brothers
>
> The full article: http://tinyurl.com/ynjosr
>

---------------------------------------
Jenifer Tidwell
jenifer.tidwell at gmail.com
http://designinginterfaces.com
http://jtidwell.net

19 Jul 2007 - 3:47pm
Ryan Nichols
2005

Oh, I absolutely would discredit it. A term like well designed or
usable is wholistic. A better way to put it may be "His site's
content is usable, but the site as a whole is not.". Something being
partially good, isn't enough for me to say it's a good example of
usability. Especially when there are so many other sites out there
that can fully embody the idea.

I like Edward Tufte's work. He shows a lot of care, concern, and
attention to detail with any and all disciplines that related to
'data visualization'. He understands that the communication of data
involves the total experience, and thus he shows craftsmanship and
excellence in everything he has to touch. Nielsen's site shows so
little care for usability in the previously mentioned ways it's sad.
When I choose whose work I will look to for authority and inspiration
it won't be Nielsen's due to his - for lack of a better term - laziness.

Ryan

On Jul 19, 2007, at 1:23 PM, Robert Hoekman, Jr. wrote:

>> I just don't get a guru like Nielson that thinks something that is
>> hard to read, difficult to parse and disseminate information, yet is
>> somehow usable. It's a very narrow definition of the word.
>
> I see what you're saying, but in Nielsen's defense, it's still
> "usable". Improving typography, whitespace, etc may *help* usability,
> or at least the enjoyability of the experience, but all that work may
> only improve the actual usability of the site by a tiny bit (assuming
> there's a perfect way to measure and compare the two versions).
>
> Believe me, I think Nielsen failed completely to create a site that
> people *want* to use - I'm just saying I wouldn't discredit it based
> on what are essentially surface points. No matter how much we pick it
> apart, it's still got plenty of good things going for it, and that's
> more than I can say for most sites.
>
> -r-
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org

19 Jul 2007 - 3:50pm
SemanticWill
2007

Agreed -

I have visio open right now - and almost daily I get down on my knees and
thank JJG for his IA Visio stencil. I liked his UX pdf back in the day, and
his book wasn't too shabby - at least I could give it to my mom to explain
what i did all day. As one who was doing ajax before JJG coined the term, it
doesn't really bother me that they attribute the coining of the term to to
him - whatever, it's a lot easier than saying xmlhttprequest object-based
interaction design or some such nonsense.

On 7/19/07, Robert Hoekman, Jr. <robert at rhjr.net> wrote:
>
> > For example, Jessie James Garrett deserves all the
> > praise he can get for evangelizing and articulating the importance of
> > Ajax, but he didn't invent it. Hell, he isn't even well-known for
> > actually using Ajax for any specific design he was responsible for.
>
> JJG also put together the Elements of User Experience PDF that was so
> widely cirulated back in the day, and worte a really book that
> expanded on the same idea (though, don't get me started on the title).
> Somewhere in there, he also put together the Visual Vocabulary, which
> I personally find really useful.
>
> He doesn't just evangelize, he offers tangible things to the
> community. So he may have only played an evangelist position by
> coining the term Ajax, but he's definitely done some great legwork in
> the past.
>
> One could certainly argue that there plenty of people out there doing
> far more, but JJG has built up a staff of evangelists that have done a
> lot for raising the visibility of UX, so one could also say he's a "UX
> guru by proxy".
>
> -r-
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
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--
will evans
t: information architect
c: 617.281.1281
e: wkevans4 at gmail.com

-------------------------------------
"Findability isn't limited to content.
Nor is it limited to the Web.
Findability is about designing systems
that help people find what they need."
~ Peter Morville, The Age of Findability

19 Jul 2007 - 3:51pm
Fred Oliveira
2007

I think we're getting sidetracked into a discussion about Nielsen and
Useit and should probably be focused on discussing both why these
people were selected as representing the "user experience" field and
how that representation affects us as designers. Useit.com is in fact
a mess of a site, Nielsen is old-fashioned and cranky, but I actually
feel more comfortable with him being on the list than I do about Seth
Godin.

Not that Seth Godin isn't an inspiration to many (including user
experience designers), but I feel like there's people out there who
should be on that list instead - and maybe aren't because user
experience still isn't as in your face as marketing.

I don't think this list has any market relevance because the names are
clearly marketing and exposure oriented, and not necessarily in terms
of real, tangible contributions to the field.

Fred Oliveira

On 7/19/07, W Evans <wkevans4 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Since I took issue with Nielson and the useit.com website first - here is a
> very quick list as to why it's less/un/not quite usable:
>
> 1. No global navigation
> 2. No clear local navigation
> 3. No clear taxonomy for content
> 4. All Alert Box content is 4th link down, header is not a link to main
> alert box page
> 5. New items are just text with no metadata - no source, date, etc.
> 6. Alert Box Page - one huge list - no sorting by facets, no filtering, no
> limited search
> 7. On Home page, Alert, Reports, News, Books, Consulting, About, should all
> be links to subpages
> 8. About this Site - does not need to be on the home page. That's silly -
> bury it under About
>
> And that is a 5 second heuristic evaluation.
>
> On 7/19/07, Robert Hoekman, Jr. <robert at rhjr.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I just don't get a guru like Nielson that thinks something that is
> > > hard to read, difficult to parse and disseminate information, yet is
> > > somehow usable. It's a very narrow definition of the word.
> >
> > I see what you're saying, but in Nielsen's defense, it's still
> > "usable". Improving typography, whitespace, etc may *help* usability,
> > or at least the enjoyability of the experience, but all that work may
> > only improve the actual usability of the site by a tiny bit (assuming
> > there's a perfect way to measure and compare the two versions).
> >
> > Believe me, I think Nielsen failed completely to create a site that
> > people *want* to use - I'm just saying I wouldn't discredit it based
> > on what are essentially surface points. No matter how much we pick it
> > apart, it's still got plenty of good things going for it, and that's
> > more than I can say for most sites.
> >
> > -r-
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> will evans
> t: information architect
> c: 617.281.1281
> e: wkevans4 at gmail.com
>
> -------------------------------------
> "Findability isn't limited to content.
> Nor is it limited to the Web.
> Findability is about designing systems
> that help people find what they need."
> ~ Peter Morville, The Age of Findability
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
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>

--
Fred Oliveira
Founder / Lead Strategy & Design - Webreakstuff
Email: fred at webreakstuff.com
http://webreakstuff.com

19 Jul 2007 - 3:55pm
SemanticWill
2007

Yeah, but Jenifer - you forget that some of us actually read Common
Ground<http://www.mit.edu/%7Ejtidwell/interaction_patterns.html>a long
time ago.

We should do our own list of UX Gurus -
I know we all agree that Alan C should be on it, as well as Morville.

What about Togs? Who hasn't read the Apple UX guide (even if its old?)

On 7/19/07, Jenifer Tidwell <jenifer.tidwell at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> *boggle*
>
> First, I'm shocked that I'm on this list at all. Shocked in a good way,
> but
> still -- most of the design work that I've done isn't public at all. I
> published a single book. Not at all sure that should qualify me for
> "guru"
> status.
>
> Second, I'm shocked that more people here aren't wondering why I'm on the
> list. :-)
>
> Third, I'm shocked at some of the names that aren't on the list. Alan
> Cooper? Peter Morville? Luke Wroblewski? They have all done more public
> design and advocacy than I have. Honestly, I'm not sure how meaningful
> this
> list really is; I have to seriously wonder about how much the respondents
> know about user experience design.
>
> Maybe we can start another IxDA email thread in which we say who's had the
> biggest influence on the way we practice our craft?
>
> - Jenifer
>
> On 7/19/07, Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com> wrote:
> >
> > E-consultancy has published a list of the "world's top 10 user
> > experience gurus". They surveyed over 700 people "with an interest in
> > usability and user experience".
> >
> > The list:
> > 1) Jakob Nielsen
> > 2) Steve Krug
> > 3) Jared Spool
> > 4) Donald Norman
> > 5) Jeffrey Veen
> > 6) Jesse James Garrett
> > 7) Louis Rosenfeld
> > 8) Jenifer Tidwell
> > 9) Seth Godin
> > 10) Eisenberg brothers
> >
> > The full article: http://tinyurl.com/ynjosr
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------
> Jenifer Tidwell
> jenifer.tidwell at gmail.com
> http://designinginterfaces.com
> http://jtidwell.net
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
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> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
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>

--
will evans
t: information architect
c: 617.281.1281
e: wkevans4 at gmail.com

-------------------------------------
"Findability isn't limited to content.
Nor is it limited to the Web.
Findability is about designing systems
that help people find what they need."
~ Peter Morville, The Age of Findability

19 Jul 2007 - 4:24pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

> Something being
> partially good, isn't enough for me to say it's a good example of
> usability.

I never said it was a good example. I said it was"usable". I didn't
say it won me over on every facet of what I consider a usable site,
just that it's "usable".

But that brings up another point. Usability is measured in degrees. As
in, "high" usability = good, and "low" usability = bad. I'd say UseIt
is somewhere in the middle. It's probably usable enough to work for
most of the people that use it (given that his audience is probably
fairly specific). It has a terrible user *experience*, but it's usable
nonetheless. I think we have to separate these things, and that we
have to have a clear definition of the terms we use to describe what
we do as interaction and usability professionals.

Usability is really nothing more than a measurement of whether or not
something is able to be used. If a site can be used reasonably
effectively, it can be deeemed "usable". A site that works really well
can be deemed as having high usability.

I'd say - based purely on my own experience - that UseIt is probably
somehwere between low and medium. I'd venture that it's uable enough
for most people who use it, but not usable enough to be called a good
example.

It may be a purely semantic debate, but semantics are a huge part of
why this profession is so misunderstood.

-r-

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