why stay at jobs that don't give you what you want/need? (was Re: IxD Advice for Developers)

14 Jul 2006 - 8:39am
8 years ago
4 replies
990 reads
Dave Malouf
2005

The previous thread about advice for developers and a conversation last
night at the NYC local gathering (more on that in a separate thread) I
had discussions with people who were really unhappy with their work
environments for various reasons.

I'd like to put out there that voting with your feet is definitely an
option right now. There are way too many jobs out there. Recruiters are
even giving bonuses for referrals they are so desperate for good talent.

I'm sure that Dan and others have reasons for staying, and that is
valid, but I wonder with this new bubble, do good designers really need
to put up with some of the non-designer bull that is out there?

Just a thought.

-- dave

Dan Weese wrote:
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> Unfortunately, I was not able to attend the Practicum. I attended a 3 day
> seminar held at the San Jose Museum. It was a great class, and made me want
> to take the Practicum, but my company won't pay for it. As it was, I had to
> agree to take the class in lieu of a raise that year, and I still almost had
> to pay for my own hotel room. I knew this company would never let me put
> these skills into practice, but I took the class for the projects I do at
> home on my own time. It was worth it to me to pass up a raise to take the
> class.
>
> Dan

--

David (Heller) Malouf
Vice President
dave(at)ixda(dot)org
http://ixda.org/
http://synapticburn.com/

AIM: bolinhanyc // Y!: dave_ux //
MSN: hippiefunk(at)hotmail.com // Gtalk: dave.ixd(at)gmail.com

Comments

14 Jul 2006 - 9:03am
Dan Weese
2006

I agree. I have been looking, but I have a couple problems. I've been here 5
years. I was brought in as a senior level VB developer and have been given
healthy raises most years. About 2 years ago, we started transitioning to C
Sharp. I am now considered a junior level C# developer, but my pay is at a
level of a senior C# developer. Nobody will touch me unless I take a $25,000
a year pay cut.

So, I had to devise a different plan. I stopped looking for a job. The
development at work is very minimal thanks to the CIO designing this
"wizard" to make cookie cutter applications and almost eliminate any actual
coding. If I showed the application to people on this list, they would
probably implode into a pile of goo. It is possibly the absolute worst user
experience I have ever seen. The initial main UI screen design was mine, but
he took the entire application and serialized it into the database, which
means every screen takes about 12 seconds to load because it first has to
make a trip to the database to get the field definitions, locations, sizes,
etc, and draw them. Then trip #2 gets the data for any lookups, then trip #3
gets the actual data. And if we needed to make a feature perform in a
certain way, if it involved actually writing code to make it work, he
discarded the feature altogether, or reworked it until it fit into his
wizard. I shudder to think what our 3000 users will do when we force them
to "upgrade" to this new platform at the end of the year. They have no idea
it's coming.

But, I digress......

Back to the plan.

I do work on the side when I can. I decided to continue writing code at
home, which right now is the only way I'm learning C#. I'm writing 2
applications that have the potential to sell commercially, and in the
process, my C# skills are getting closer to my pay grade. If all goes well,
I'll have 2 options. I can go get a job somewhere else as a senior level
developer and keep my pay, or my applications will sell commercially and I
will quit altogether to devote full time to my new venture. At the very
least, I'm learning C#.

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave (Heller) Malouf" <dave at ixda.org>
To: <discuss at ixda.org>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:39 AM
Subject: [IxDA Discuss] why stay at jobs that don't give you what you
want/need? (was Re: IxD Advice for Developers)

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
>
> The previous thread about advice for developers and a conversation last
> night at the NYC local gathering (more on that in a separate thread) I
> had discussions with people who were really unhappy with their work
> environments for various reasons.
>
> I'd like to put out there that voting with your feet is definitely an
> option right now. There are way too many jobs out there. Recruiters are
> even giving bonuses for referrals they are so desperate for good talent.
>
> I'm sure that Dan and others have reasons for staying, and that is
> valid, but I wonder with this new bubble, do good designers really need
> to put up with some of the non-designer bull that is out there?
>
> Just a thought.
>
> -- dave
>
>
> Dan Weese wrote:
>> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
>> material.]
>>
>> Unfortunately, I was not able to attend the Practicum. I attended a 3 day
>> seminar held at the San Jose Museum. It was a great class, and made me
>> want
>> to take the Practicum, but my company won't pay for it. As it was, I had
>> to
>> agree to take the class in lieu of a raise that year, and I still almost
>> had
>> to pay for my own hotel room. I knew this company would never let me put
>> these skills into practice, but I took the class for the projects I do at
>> home on my own time. It was worth it to me to pass up a raise to take the
>> class.
>>
>> Dan
>
> --
>
> David (Heller) Malouf
> Vice President
> dave(at)ixda(dot)org
> http://ixda.org/
> http://synapticburn.com/
>
> AIM: bolinhanyc // Y!: dave_ux //
> MSN: hippiefunk(at)hotmail.com // Gtalk: dave.ixd(at)gmail.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

14 Jul 2006 - 9:53am
Jack L. Moffett
2005

> I'm sure that Dan and others have reasons for staying, and that is
> valid, but I wonder with this new bubble, do good designers really
> need
> to put up with some of the non-designer bull that is out there?

Perhaps it's partly due to a drive/attitude that still says "I can
change this. I can make things better." After all, that's what we do.

Jack

Jack L. Moffett
Interaction Designer
inmedius
412.690.2360 x219
http://www.inmedius.com

Things should be as simple as possible,
but no simpler.

- Albert Einstein

14 Jul 2006 - 10:06am
Gustavo Gawry
2006

One thing more...
Im sorry for my awful english...
:-)

2006/7/14, Gustavo Gawry <gustavogawry at gmail.com>:
> You really are lucky and you dont know...
>
> I know that im quite young ( im only 20 yr old ), but i have been
> working with internet since i was 16. As i was not satisfied with what
> i was doing, I started to study HCI, Usability and Information
> Architecture, and i really liked. I started to read in an unusualy
> was... i read about 10 books in 6 months, whats is really impressive
> for me ( i didnt had the habit of reading that much ). I did 2 courses
> ( one about Usability and the other about IA ) and now that i thought
> i was at least better prepared to work as a Junior IA or something
> similar, i still have to stay where i work, even thinking that i could
> do much more...
>
> Why? here in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, there are only 2 usability
> companies and REALLY few companies that care about that... In my case
> it will be really hard to find a job in this field, because are to few
> opportunities.. Even the courses and books are too few... And more
> some people were talking about researches, here i never saw one...
> Researches here are limitaded to few universities and companies ( like
> those 2 i said before )
> You all should be happy, you are much better then me.. :-/
>
>
> 2006/7/14, Dan Weese <dweese at caelumtechnology.com>:
> > [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
> >
> > I agree. I have been looking, but I have a couple problems. I've been here 5
> > years. I was brought in as a senior level VB developer and have been given
> > healthy raises most years. About 2 years ago, we started transitioning to C
> > Sharp. I am now considered a junior level C# developer, but my pay is at a
> > level of a senior C# developer. Nobody will touch me unless I take a $25,000
> > a year pay cut.
> >
> > So, I had to devise a different plan. I stopped looking for a job. The
> > development at work is very minimal thanks to the CIO designing this
> > "wizard" to make cookie cutter applications and almost eliminate any actual
> > coding. If I showed the application to people on this list, they would
> > probably implode into a pile of goo. It is possibly the absolute worst user
> > experience I have ever seen. The initial main UI screen design was mine, but
> > he took the entire application and serialized it into the database, which
> > means every screen takes about 12 seconds to load because it first has to
> > make a trip to the database to get the field definitions, locations, sizes,
> > etc, and draw them. Then trip #2 gets the data for any lookups, then trip #3
> > gets the actual data. And if we needed to make a feature perform in a
> > certain way, if it involved actually writing code to make it work, he
> > discarded the feature altogether, or reworked it until it fit into his
> > wizard. I shudder to think what our 3000 users will do when we force them
> > to "upgrade" to this new platform at the end of the year. They have no idea
> > it's coming.
> >
> > But, I digress......
> >
> > Back to the plan.
> >
> > I do work on the side when I can. I decided to continue writing code at
> > home, which right now is the only way I'm learning C#. I'm writing 2
> > applications that have the potential to sell commercially, and in the
> > process, my C# skills are getting closer to my pay grade. If all goes well,
> > I'll have 2 options. I can go get a job somewhere else as a senior level
> > developer and keep my pay, or my applications will sell commercially and I
> > will quit altogether to devote full time to my new venture. At the very
> > least, I'm learning C#.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave (Heller) Malouf" <dave at ixda.org>
> > To: <discuss at ixda.org>
> > Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:39 AM
> > Subject: [IxDA Discuss] why stay at jobs that don't give you what you
> > want/need? (was Re: IxD Advice for Developers)
> >
> >
> > > [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> > > material.]
> > >
> > > The previous thread about advice for developers and a conversation last
> > > night at the NYC local gathering (more on that in a separate thread) I
> > > had discussions with people who were really unhappy with their work
> > > environments for various reasons.
> > >
> > > I'd like to put out there that voting with your feet is definitely an
> > > option right now. There are way too many jobs out there. Recruiters are
> > > even giving bonuses for referrals they are so desperate for good talent.
> > >
> > > I'm sure that Dan and others have reasons for staying, and that is
> > > valid, but I wonder with this new bubble, do good designers really need
> > > to put up with some of the non-designer bull that is out there?
> > >
> > > Just a thought.
> > >
> > > -- dave
> > >
> > >
> > > Dan Weese wrote:
> > >> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> > >> material.]
> > >>
> > >> Unfortunately, I was not able to attend the Practicum. I attended a 3 day
> > >> seminar held at the San Jose Museum. It was a great class, and made me
> > >> want
> > >> to take the Practicum, but my company won't pay for it. As it was, I had
> > >> to
> > >> agree to take the class in lieu of a raise that year, and I still almost
> > >> had
> > >> to pay for my own hotel room. I knew this company would never let me put
> > >> these skills into practice, but I took the class for the projects I do at
> > >> home on my own time. It was worth it to me to pass up a raise to take the
> > >> class.
> > >>
> > >> Dan
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > David (Heller) Malouf
> > > Vice President
> > > dave(at)ixda(dot)org
> > > http://ixda.org/
> > > http://synapticburn.com/
> > >
> > > AIM: bolinhanyc // Y!: dave_ux //
> > > MSN: hippiefunk(at)hotmail.com // Gtalk: dave.ixd(at)gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > > List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> > > List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> > > (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> > > Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> > > Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> > > Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> > > Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> > >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> > List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> > (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> > Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> > Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> > Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> >
>
>
> --
> Gustavo Gawry
> www.gawry.com
>

--
Gustavo Gawry
www.gawry.com

14 Jul 2006 - 1:45pm
dmitryn
2004

> Why? here in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, there are only 2 usability
> companies and REALLY few companies that care about that... In my case
> it will be really hard to find a job in this field, because are to few
> opportunities..

Gustavo, I wouldn't be too worried if I were you. IxD/IA/UX will
inevitably migrate towards greater use of global sourcing of talent in
the not-too-distant future, just as other parts of the IT industry
have already done. Only a few years ago, the situation in North
America wasn't much different from what you are describing, and I'm
sure you will be well positioned to take advantage of this change when
it takes place.

Dmitry

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