Liquid Blueprint

Hey all.

For some of you who do web work and have heard of Blueprint, you'll know it's an XHTML+CSS means for creating nicely structured grid systems for layout work on the web. Based on some work we've been doing at Involution Studios, I've made some modifications to Blueprint so that it can be toggled from a fixed layout into a liquid, stretch layout based on the browser window size.

I'll be writing up a blog post on Design by Fire hopefully sometime this weekend that covers this approach in detail, but you can read a summary of the changes at:
http://groups.google.com/group /blueprintcss /browse _thread /thread / 9e7fa0bb19fa9bf0

The fixed layout page:
http://www.designbyfire.com/liquid _blueprint /tests /sample.html

The liquid layout sample page in action:
http://www.designbyfire.com/liquid _blueprint /tests /liquid.html

The CSS:
http://www.designbyfire.com/liquid _blueprint /blueprint /lib /liquid.css

The Blueprint project page:
http://code.google.com/p/blueprintcss/

If this sort of thing interests you, join the Blueprint group on Google Groups to keep up with the latest details.

-- Andrei Herasimchuk

Principal, Involution Studios
innovating the digital world

e. andrei at involutionstudios.com
c. +1 408 306 6422

Thanks for the work and the tip. I've used and like Blueprint - this improves it.

Cheers,
Gabe Friedman

Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=23298

Thanks a lot for the link. I am weaning myself from table-based layout to css-based layout, and anything that can make it easier is great.

Original Message
The Blueprint project page: http://code.google.com/p/blueprintcss/

I love Blueprint, and this is great addition. Thanks, Andrei.

On Dec 6, 2007 1:22 AM, Andrei Herasimchuk andrei at involutionstudios.com wrote:

Hey all. For some of you who do web work and have heard of Blueprint, you'll know it's an XHTML+CSS means for creating nicely structured grid systems for layout work on the web. Based on some work we've been doing at Involution Studios, I've made some modifications to Blueprint so that it can be toggled from a fixed layout into a liquid, stretch layout based on the browser window size. I'll be writing up a blog post on Design by Fire hopefully sometime this weekend that covers this approach in detail, but you can read a summary of [trim]

Could someone please enlighten me, whether the heated debate regarding Table-based layout vs. CSS-based layout is ultimately over? Is CSS the winner, or it depends on concrete applications? What are the guidelines?

I'd hate to start a flame, just want to keep up with modern approaches.

Thanks!
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Liquid -Blueprint -tp14188974p14999730.html Sent from the ixda.org - discussion list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

I'd argue that the debate is long over. CSS-based layout wins.

Tables should not be used for layout, they should be used to display tabular data (rows and columns).

CSS should be used for page layout.

...Dan

On Jan 21, 2008, at 8:33 AM, Oleg Krupnov wrote:

Could someone please enlighten me, whether the heated debate regarding Table-based layout vs. CSS-based layout is ultimately over? Is CSS the winner, or it depends on concrete applications? What are the guidelines?

On 21 Jan 2008, at 16:33, Oleg Krupnov wrote:
[snip]
Could someone please enlighten me, whether the heated debate regarding Table-based layout vs. CSS-based layout is ultimately over? Is CSS the winner, or it depends on concrete applications? What are the guidelines? [snip] Debate is over. CSS is the winner (Apart from a very few places where CSS support doesn't work well enough - e.g. HTML email) Cheers, Adrian

I agree that it's long over. I personally haven't seen a new project coming out with tables for about 3 or 4 years now.

Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=24855

Well, unfortunately...
the debate's over as far as what's right, but many major CMS, Portal and other generating systems
still are not only spitting out table-based design, but really ~unpleasant~ table-based design.

Some are making progress, but ugh!

Scott

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 01:55:18, Bruno Figueiredo
bruno.figueiredo at gmail.com wrote:
I agree that it's long over. I personally haven't seen a new project coming out with tables for about 3 or 4 years now.

-- As free as the wind
And hopefully learning - roxy music

While it may seem easier on first blush to layout a form with tables (e.g. labels in left column, fields in right) it's usually less code to layout the same form with CSS and pretty easy once you do it a couple of times.

...Dan

On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:32 PM, Marco Plaisier wrote:

I would like to add that forms are a gray area. It is possible to construct the layout of form pages with CSS, but it can easier to do with tables.

On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:32 PM, Marco Plaisier wrote: I would like to add that forms are a gray area. It is possible to construct the layout of form pages with CSS, but it can easier to do with tables.

On Jan 22, 2008 9:37 AM, Dan Harrelson danh at adaptivepath.com wrote: While it may seem easier on first blush to layout a form with tables (e.g. labels in left column, fields in right) it's usually less code to layout the same form with CSS and pretty easy once you do it a couple of times.

And then maybe most importantly, it's easier to redo the form or page in CSS than with tables. Always assume you'll have to redo something, because you will.

Bill

I recall the greatest need to rely on tables for predictable form layout was the disparity between browser CSS handling. Though still not perfect, I agree that using CSS reliably for almost any form layout is much easier now that several older browsers have fallen by the wayside (IE 5.x, Netscape 6). It takes awhile to find or establish some best practices, but once you do it's tough to justify using tables for anything.

In reviewing a recent design with my developer, we were walking through the site and came across the only page with a table, displaying sortable columns of data, and actually had to pause to say: "And I had to use a table here because...well...it's a table...".

4 years ago, it would have been the opposite...

Bryan http://www.bryanminihan.com

Original Message
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Dan Harrelson
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:37 PM
To: discuss at lists.interactiondesigners.com
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Liquid Blueprint

While it may seem easier on first blush to layout a form with tables (e.g. labels in left column, fields in right) it's usually less code to layout the same form with CSS and pretty easy once you do it a couple of times.

...Dan